G20: Toronto in Flames

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Here is one thing they are protesting:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/1...ivil_liberties

Keep in mind that countries do not lose they're freedoms overnight. It is usually a slow process where people gradually accept losing freedom in exchange for security. I am not going to get into conspiracy stuff, but there is a slippery slop, in my opinion, with some of this stuff.

Yeah there are some people who don't appreciate the personal infringments, security overkill and CCTV cameras suveilling them 24/7.

...all as a result of the "war on terror" ...all for their "security"...

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...4_PhSoNaVep8_Q

"According to the latest studies, Britain has a staggering 4.2million CCTV cameras - one for every 14 people in the country - and 20 per cent of cameras globally. It has been calculated that each person is caught on camera an average of 300 times daily."

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Hows that anti-gun law working for you Toronto?

People should be free to protect their property, in any way they can, if the police are unable to.

Toronto held hostage to idiots. Looks good on them.

Totally. I much prefer my angry mobs to be well armed.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Kind of a poor example. It's an old law, that was "revamped" for the G20 and ends when the G20 ends. It's basically a watered down riot act and given the stuff that's been going on, I'd say it's warranted. Keep in mind there have been 150 arrests, not 15,000. They aren't going around house to house rounding up NDPers or Liberals and throwing them in the gulags of Nunavut. They are using it to arrest people who have no business coming close to the fence or being near sensitive areas.

Again, police are damned if they do, damned if they don't. I don't envy the officers there right now.

Here's the problem with it...

It was passed without the normal openess that we expect in a free democracy. In fact, the law wasn't even made public until someone was arrested for breaking it!! Imagine that... walking down the street and being arrested for breaking a law that you had no way of knowing it even existed... doesn't that freak you out a little bit?

For the record, this isn't crazy left wing crying either... The Ontario Conservatives are more pissed than anyone that a provincial government can do something like this.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Yeah there are some people who don't appreciate the personal infringments, security overkill and CCTV cameras suveilling them 24/7.

...all as a result of the "war on terror" ...all for their "security"...

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...4_PhSoNaVep8_Q

"According to the latest studies, Britain has a staggering 4.2million CCTV cameras - one for every 14 people in the country - and 20 per cent of cameras globally. It has been calculated that each person is caught on camera an average of 300 times daily."

Except that the UK is actively reducing the amount of surveillance they conduct on their citizenry, and seeking to bring some balance to a pendulum that is now recognized as having swung too far in one direction: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/0...ures-cuts.html

[Bunk]

Lots of interesting Tweets by respected TV Ontario Journalist Steve Paikin (you may remember he hosted one of the last Canadian leaders television debates last election) about what's going on tonight in Toronto.

https://twitter.com/spaikin

i saw police brutality tonight. it was unnecessary. they asked me to leave the site or they would arrest me. i told them i was doing my job.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Here's the problem with it...

It was passed without the normal openess that we expect in a free democracy. In fact, the law wasn't even made public until someone was arrested for breaking it!! Imagine that... walking down the street and being arrested for breaking a law that you had no way of knowing it even existed... doesn't that freak you out a little bit?

For the record, this isn't crazy left wing crying either... The Ontario Conservatives are more pissed than anyone that a provincial government can do something like this.

But people aren't being arrested for just walking down the street! Random people aren't being arrested. People who are where they are not supposed to be and causing trouble are being arrested.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

But people aren't being arrested for just walking down the street! Random people aren't being arrested. People who are where they are not supposed to be and causing trouble are being arrested.

Or, are they?

https://twitter.com/spaikin

so the police just started arresting people. i stress, this was a peaceful, middle class, diverse crowd. no anarchists

Keep in mind the source (who may not be familiar to Albertans, but is a highly respected Ontario Journalist).

BTW, i find the violent actions and vandals of some of the people nothing but dispicable, and generally don't think of the kind of protests happening as being at all compelling or effective. However, I find some of the Police action and the government's overall approach to hosting this summit to be highly questionable.

[Calgaryborn]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Here is one thing they are protesting:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/1...ivil_liberties

Keep in mind that countries do not lose they're freedoms overnight. It is usually a slow process where people gradually accept losing freedom in exchange for security. I am not going to get into conspiracy stuff, but there is a slippery slop, in my opinion, with some of this stuff.

That is surely one thing they are protesting but, it isn't the primary purpose of them being there. They didn't know the change in the law until they arrived.

Do I like the law? No but, I understand the reason behind it. The bad behaviour at these events has cause a progressive tightening of security.

The reason these folks are protesting vary but, they all relate to social justice issues. They seek the redistribution of wealth on a global scale. On the surface it sounds very noble. In reality it will rob us of the freedom we still have left.

[Nage Waza]

Some of the cry babies in this thread make me sick. Seriously. If it were not for the fools with the sticks and the bricks causing the problems, there would have been no reason for the gov to pass assorted laws or the police to build barricades. We send people to other countries to defend our freedoms, and many of them get injured or die in the process. On occasion here on our own turf we must give up a little to keep everyone safe. If you want to cause problems, these police are there for you, not for innocent civilians going for lunch.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

But people aren't being arrested for just walking down the street! Random people aren't being arrested. People who are where they are not supposed to be and causing trouble are being arrested.

Going by some of the footage I saw tonight, "people who are where they are not supposed to be" is rather loosely defined.

It looks like "where you are not supposed to be" is "wherever a guy with a helmet, gun and club decides you are not supposed to be, depending on his mood".

I saw a guy (a young black guy in a brown t-shirt) who was doing nothing at all get yanked behind a line of "riot police" and taken away in cuffs.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Bunk

Or, are they?

https://twitter.com/spaikin


Keep in mind the source (who may not be familiar to Albertans, but is a highly respected Ontario Journalist).

I just tweeted that Arnold Schwarzenneger was seen in a barn doing unspeakable things with sheep. So since it was on twitter it must be fact. People may stretch the truth to meet their views on a certain incident, imagine that.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Going by some of the footage I saw tonight, "people who are where they are not supposed to be" is rather loosely defined.

It looks like "where you are not supposed to be" is "wherever a guy with a helmet, gun and club decides you are not supposed to be, depending on his mood".

I saw a guy (a young black guy in a brown t-shirt) who was doing nothing at all get yanked behind a line of "riot police" and taken away in cuffs.

I don't know about you, but if I see riot police on the street, I'm going the other way. You gotta pick which hill you wanna die on. If I really have THAT big of a problem with the way the police acted, I'll go lay a complaint.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I saw a guy (a young black guy in a brown t-shirt) who was doing nothing at all get yanked behind a line of "riot police" and taken away in cuffs.

Not that I know what happened, but could it be possible that the person you saw doing nothing was previously doing something, and that was why the police grabbed him? What you see is not always what you get.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

But people aren't being arrested for just walking down the street! Random people aren't being arrested. People who are where they are not supposed to be and causing trouble are being arrested.

I guess that depends on who you ask. There are individual witnesses saying that police have arrested people indiscriminately.

No matter what though, the whole process stinks. Never in Canada should we have to explain to a police officer our reasons for walking down the street or be forced to a warrantless search.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I just tweeted that Arnold Schwarzenneger was seen in a barn doing unspeakable things with sheep. So since it was on twitter it must be fact. People may stretch the truth to meet their views on a certain incident, imagine that.

What's your agenda on Arnold Schwarzenneger and sheep?

What I'm saying is, it's worth considering the credibility of the source. This particular journalist, I and many people trust. Therefore, it's worth considering his account of events with some confidence that he is telling the truth.

[Rejean31]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Yeah there are some people who don't appreciate the personal infringments, security overkill and CCTV cameras suveilling them 24/7.

...all as a result of the "war on terror" ...all for their "security"...

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source...4_PhSoNaVep8_Q

"According to the latest studies, Britain has a staggering 4.2million CCTV cameras - one for every 14 people in the country - and 20 per cent of cameras globally. It has been calculated that each person is caught on camera an average of 300 times daily."

So what. If you aren't doing anything wrong or anything to be ashamed of why should you care if you are caught on a security camera?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

So what. If you aren't doing anything wrong or anything to be ashamed of why should you care if you are caught on a security camera?

The expense and man power it must take to watch all of that video...just is not a very logic conclusion to say that "Big Brother is watching you".

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I guess that depends on who you ask. There are individual witnesses saying that police have arrested people indiscriminately.

No matter what though, the whole process stinks. Never in Canada should we have to explain to a police officer our reasons for walking down the street or be forced to a warrantless search.

Interesting. Are you allowed to go walk up to Stephen Harper's residence whenever you feel like it? How about to a military base? Prison fence? No, because there are things inside that need to be protected. Fact of the matter is this; for the next couple of days, world leaders are meeting in Toronto in a certain part of the city. In the interest of their security, the general public is being kept apart from them. There is the WHOLE rest of the city to go protest or do whatever your little heart desires. Don't go to the fence or there will be trouble. When this fiasco is over, everyone can go back to their lives and find something else to complain about.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Bunk

What's your agenda on Arnold Schwarzenneger and sheep?

What I'm saying is, it's worth considering the credibility of the source. This particular journalist, I and many people trust. Therefore, it's worth considering his account of events with some confidence that he is telling the truth.

i was being facetious

[Bertuzzied]

I was out after the draft and didn't really watch the news till now, but if there was only 100-200 anarchists dressed in black, why didn't the police just go in tase them and arrest them?

And what the hell? hellohockeyfans smokes? Ed Whalen would be disappointed.