May 20th is Everyone Draw Mohammad Day

[Traditional_Ale]

I didn't read the thread, but I just want to say:

Good. Islam deserves to rediculed, chastized, and made fun of just as much as all the other religions. Its definately due.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by zuluking

Everyone, Muslims included, have the inalienable right to free speech. .

In 2006, Abdul Rahman, a convert from Islam to Christianity, was facing the death penalty for apostasy in Afghanistan. Essentially, an entire society - it's culture - felt his "crime," the freedom to choose his religion, was so heinous that the ultimate penalty was just.

There's just a certain "groupthink" about Islam that screams "Middle Ages" or, a more modern word, "immaturity."

Cowperson

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I didn't read the thread, but I just want to say:

Good. Islam deserves to rediculed, chastized, and made fun of just as much as all the other religions. Its definately due.

Wow

[SebC]

I will not be drawing Mohammad myself, but only because I'm lazy.

It is important to continuously re-affirm our free speech. If we don't use our freedoms, it will become easier for people to take them away. Would we really have a democracy if nobody votes?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

In 2006, Abdul Rahman, a convert from Islam to Christianity, was facing the death penalty for apostasy in Afghanistan. Essentially, an entire society - it's culture - felt his "crime," the freedom to choose his religion, was so heinous that the ultimate penalty was just.

There's just a certain "groupthink" about Islam that screams "Middle Ages" or, a more modern word, "immaturity."

Cowperson

I've always thought it was weird. Islam in the middle ages was a very scholarly religion, they recognized a woman's right to divorce, and gain inheritance and property ownership in the 7th century way before other western religions. Woman were given a right to higher education in the 12th century. Islam was so far ahead in a lot of ways in the middle ages. But as they expanded and more radicalized elements took over, the religion regressed or stagnated. Islam didn't have a Martin Luthor and an edict of worms. They didn't have a reformation, and they didnt have unifying leadership.

While a lot of the more admiral traits of Islam still practiced by the rank and file, it sadly gets overshadowed by the nut bars that have mutilated their interpretation of Islam.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Wow

I hope someone draws a cartoon of Jesus and Mohammad in a hockey fight.

[CaptainCrunch]

Stay classy Ale

[firebug]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I've always thought it was weird. Islam in the middle ages was a very scholarly religion, they recognized a woman's right to divorce, and gain inheritance and property ownership in the 7th century way before other western religions. Woman were given a right to higher education in the 12th century. Islam was so far ahead in a lot of ways in the middle ages. But as they expanded and more radicalized elements took over, the religion regressed or stagnated. Islam didn't have a Martin Luthor and an edict of worms. They didn't have a reformation, and they didnt have unifying leadership.

While a lot of the more admiral traits of Islam still practiced by the rank and file, it sadly gets overshadowed by the nut bars that have mutilated their interpretation of Islam.

Indeed western 'civilization' owes a debt of gratitude to Islam as, for a significant portion of history, they were the shining lights of education and understanding.

One of the most beautiful buildings in the world, Alhambra, was created by Moorish muslims. Much of its beauty can be derived from the fact that they would not create an image of Mohammed, nor of any other living things.

~firebug

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Stay classy Ale

Oh come on man.

I really hope once all the baby boomers are dead we can just throw political correctness out the window and make fun of everyone and everything equally heinously. The asthetic of how disparate societies from the opposite parts of the world are supposed to interact with each other is pathetic. Whats even more pathetic is that there are some people who would feel religiously justified in taking someone's life over a cartoon.

Take a freaking chill pill.

Oh, and President Jesus VS President Mohammad would be cool too.

[Burninator]

I'm not sure if the motivation of the creators of this event was to bring up free speech and freedom of religion or ridicule religion, but it's clearly a free speech issue in my mind.

One has to look no further than South Park to see that depicting Mohammed is still a huge problem. If the creators of the event wanted to ridicule religion then I would agree that it is a stupid event, but I doubt that was solely their motivation. The fact is that you do not hold the right to not be offended. I am not Muslim, I have no obligation to follow their rules and they have no right to make me follow them.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think my problem with this whole thing is that "Yes" we have a right to free speech and free expression, but as a civilized society you should not only temper things with polite discourse, but you should also show at least some respect for the group that your addressing.

To me contains non of those elements, and your adressing a group who's mind your never going to change. Instead of doing this in a somewhat polite and respectful way or in the guise of debate. Your hauling off and slapping that group right in the face, then your cramming your junk between their eyes and laughing at their beliefs.

I can also imagine some of the pictures that are being drawn and posted by the more idiotic free thinkers out there.

[Rifleman]

I don't think we can label all Muslims as violent Neanderthals based on their religion. For every extremist shouting in the streets there are several others who value free speech and/or don't let any silly drawings affect their beliefs.

I won't even go so far as to say Islam encourages this type of behavior, because as far as I know, there is no verse in it that tells people to riot when they are offended.

However....the culture of that area has proven time and again that they are an immature and reactive people. People who don't know how to make their dissatisfaction known without rioting. And that's why I think Draw Mohammad Day should go ahead. Not to offend Muslims, but to tell those types of people to grow the f** up and learn how to voice their opinions without firebombing stores or beheading people.

Oh, and here's my version:

[carom]

Originally Posted by firebug

If we spent a day mocking the swastika, who exactly would be offended?

~firebug

Jains, thats who

The holiest symbol is a simple swastika.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain#Jain_symbolism

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I think my problem with this whole thing is that "Yes" we have a right to free speech and free expression, but as a civilized society you should not only temper things with polite discourse, but you should also show at least some respect for the group that your addressing.

To me contains non of those elements, and your adressing a group who's mind your never going to change. Instead of doing this in a somewhat polite and respectful way or in the guise of debate. Your hauling off and slapping that group right in the face, then your cramming your junk between their eyes and laughing at their beliefs.

I can also imagine some of the pictures that are being drawn and posted by the more idiotic free thinkers out there.

You honestly believe that the next generations of Islamics are going to continue to be as extreme as their predascesors? (spelling?)

The youth of these places of the world, albeit not like in North America or Europe and Asia, have access to technology and information. The fear mongering, propoganda and extremism cannot be perpetuated in a society that is getting smarter and smarter every day. Once upon a time this kind of sociological mind control was easy because there was no other side to the coin.

So if I am not allowed to make/enjoy cartoons you seem to detest so much, yet you would argue we all have to play nice because they're never going to change, what exactly is your point?

[gargamel]

I think the point is that westerners mocking Muslims for the sake of mocking them just makes it more likely that the next generation will be as extreme as their predecessors. Contrary to what W believes, they don't "hate us for our freedoms." They hate us, at least in part, because they believe that we hate them. We hate them, at least in part, because they hate us. The cycle has to stop somewhere, and all this does is escalate it.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by gargamel

I think the point is that westerners mocking Muslims for the sake of mocking them just makes it more likely that the next generation will be as extreme as their predecessors. Contrary to what W believes, they don't "hate us for our freedoms." They hate us, at least in part, because they believe that we hate them. We hate them, at least in part, because they hate us. The cycle has to stop somewhere, and all this does is escalate it.

Well why don't they start firing back some Jesus and Western hate comics? Actually, I don't know why I haven't looked harder for some. But that would be awesome. An internet cold-war of comic brilliance.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Oh come on man.

I really hope once all the baby boomers are dead we can just throw political correctness out the window and make fun of everyone and everything equally heinously. The asthetic of how disparate societies from the opposite parts of the world are supposed to interact with each other is pathetic. Whats even more pathetic is that there are some people who would feel religiously justified in taking someone's life over a cartoon.

Take a freaking chill pill.

Oh, and President Jesus VS President Mohammad would be cool too.

First and foremost, I'm not a baby boomer, I'm Gen-X. I despare for a society where everyone makes fun of everyone else based on their beliefs. To me that leads to an absolutle breakdown in human communication, and a removal of any useful dialogue. I don't feel that its right to take someone's life over a cartoon, I strongly dislike the radical element of any religion, and I firmly believe that the moderate Majority Muslim does suffer in silence because of the perceived power of the radical element in both their community and abroad.

When you talk about how disparant societies communicate on one side and then talk about making fun of someones beliefs on the other side, its a mis matched method. And when I hear about people who think its right to slap groups in the face, or to poke fun at them or to intentional stir up said groups I have to wonder what made their beliefs so infalliable that they believe they have the right to judge others.

Also when you believe you have the right to make fun of a group or a society because of their beliefs or value system you begin the process of communication breakdown, you create the alienation of groups which is one of the biggest problems facing Canadian Society today especially in the minority communities.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by gargamel

I think the point is that westerners mocking Muslims for the sake of mocking them just makes it more likely that the next generation will be as extreme as their predecessors. Contrary to what W believes, they don't "hate us for our freedoms." They hate us, at least in part, because they believe that we hate them. We hate them, at least in part, because they hate us. The cycle has to stop somewhere, and all this does is escalate it.

This directly ties in with CSIS recently proclaiming that second and third-generation Canadians are the ones who are posing the most risk these days, as they, for some reason or another, become radicalized and build a resentment of the same values they grew up in.

Inflammatory activities such as this only serve to add fuel to that fire.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

You honestly believe that the next generations of Islamics are going to continue to be as extreme as their predascesors? (spelling?)

The youth of these places of the world, albeit not like in North America or Europe and Asia, have access to technology and information. The fear mongering, propoganda and extremism cannot be perpetuated in a society that is getting smarter and smarter every day. Once upon a time this kind of sociological mind control was easy because there was no other side to the coin.

So if I am not allowed to make/enjoy cartoons you seem to detest so much, yet you would argue we all have to play nice because they're never going to change, what exactly is your point?

I believe that the level of hate will remain constant driven by a minority within those communities. We are seeing a growth in homegrown threats fueled by feelings of alienation, anger and the ability for recruiters to tap into those emotions.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

First and foremost, I'm not a baby boomer, I'm Gen-X. I despare for a society where everyone makes fun of everyone else based on their beliefs. To me that leads to an absolutle breakdown in human communication, and a removal of any useful dialogue. I don't feel that its right to take someone's life over a cartoon, I strongly dislike the radical element of any religion, and I firmly believe that the moderate Majority Muslim does suffer in silence because of the perceived power of the radical element in both their community and abroad.

When you talk about how disparant societies communicate on one side and then talk about making fun of someones beliefs on the other side, its a mis matched method. And when I hear about people who think its right to slap groups in the face, or to poke fun at them or to intentional stir up said groups I have to wonder what made their beliefs so infalliable that they believe they have the right to judge others.

Also when you believe you have the right to make fun of a group or a society because of their beliefs or value system you begin the process of communication breakdown, you create the alienation of groups which is one of the biggest problems facing Canadian Society today especially in the minority communities.

The other day on the train I saw two guys my age having a conversation about this. One was obviously Muslim and the other was caucasian.

The conversation went like this:

Whitey: "At least my culture doesn't condone killing people over comics."

Browney: "At least my culture is older than 200 years and goes a little deeper than being a stupid honkey driving a gay truck and pretending to be a cowboy once a year."

I felt like standing up and cheering.

This is progress, and like Frank Zappa said:

"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible."