Honda CRV or Toyota Rav4?

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

For the Subaru owners - does Subaru negotiate prices or are they firm like Toyota?

bought one about three weeks ago. Offered invoice by three different dealers; I live in the States, however

[Shin Pad]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

Can't believe i missed this thread, I own a 2009 Rav4 and the wifey has a 2010 Subaru Forrester.

I have always loved subaru, the forrester was the third subaru purchase for me and I don't regret it for one second.

Overall my take is as such

Subaru - More options and MUCH better looking interior. However there is way more rattles then the Rav4. AWD system is unmatched, Gas goes quick. Paint chips if you stare at it long enough.

Toyota - 0 issues and great resale (that might change however LOL) Good AWD, better GC then the Subby a bit better on gas. Swing door sucks if you ever have to parallel park and get something out. Feels like there is a bit more CS room. Seats are considerably worse compared the subaru.

Overall I like driving the Rav4 more because it feels peppier but the Subaru is the beauty winner hands down.

Do you have the turbo version (224 HP)? How was the gas mileage compared to the advertised gas mileage?

[CRXguy]

Originally Posted by Shin Pad

Do you have the turbo version (224 HP)? How was the gas mileage compared to the advertised gas mileage?

I had a 2003 WRX 5spd, and got about 550km on 60L which is when the light came on. That would be a good guideline. Premium is pretty bad on the wallet, but man was that car fun.

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by nieuwy-89

For the Subaru owners - does Subaru negotiate prices or are they firm like Toyota?

I negotiated nearly 6k off my Imprezza last year. I paid cash for it though, and it was during the height of the recession I suppose.

That 6K did include some accessories such as the tinting and a upgraded mirror with homelink in it.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by Shin Pad

Sorry - my mistake - I test drove the turbo model - 224 HP. It had so much power, I thought it was a 6 cyl. The Toyota was a 6 cyl - 269 HP. The regular 170 HP engines that come with most of these small SUVs are ok, but I think the added power is what is going to sway me.

turbo lag didn't bother you?

[Sylvanfan]

After 4 years and 105,000 kilometers my Rav4 is still pretty solid. No noticeable rattles or anything like that. Just took it over the Okanagan Connector last week and it easily goes 120 up that hill and against a really stiff head wind to boot.

My cousins have a 2007 Santa Fe, and after a year it was a lot more rattly, and the finish on the vehicle to me didn't feel as solid as my Toyota. But for less money they did get a lot more features in their vehicle.

[Shin Pad]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

turbo lag didn't bother you?

No, I didn't really notice it. I'm looking for something with enough power to pass on the highway without having to take a "run" at it. The turbo had more than enough power for that, as did the Rav4.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Shin Pad

No, I didn't really notice it. I'm looking for something with enough power to pass on the highway without having to take a "run" at it. The turbo had more than enough power for that, as did the Rav4.

Turbos, although a bit laggy, work really well for highway passing as you can build boost and pass decently quickly without having to gear down to get the revs up like a naturally aspirated car.

Lots of newer turbos with variable geometry have a lot less issue with lag as older systems.

[Shin Pad]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

After 4 years and 105,000 kilometers my Rav4 is still pretty solid. No noticeable rattles or anything like that. Just took it over the Okanagan Connector last week and it easily goes 120 up that hill and against a really stiff head wind to boot.

My cousins have a 2007 Santa Fe, and after a year it was a lot more rattly, and the finish on the vehicle to me didn't feel as solid as my Toyota. But for less money they did get a lot more features in their vehicle.

I found the Rav4 to be a very solid vehicle also. I'm still looking at a few more vehicles, but right now, it's between the Forester and the Rav4.

[amorak]

Originally Posted by henriksedin33

New Sorrento looks decent, the Sportage is in drastic need of a redesign.

You rang?



http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/31/k...to-show-debut/

[Table 5]

I dislike CUV's, but even I think the new Sportage looks pretty solid. It almost even looks like what a Rav4 should look like by now.

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by Table 5

I dislike CUV's, but even I think the new Sportage looks pretty solid. It almost even looks like what a Rav4 should look like by now.

That Sportage looks identical to a Ford Edge, and a few other CUV's...

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Shin Pad

I found the Rav4 to be a very solid vehicle also. I'm still looking at a few more vehicles, but right now, it's between the Forester and the Rav4.

Yeah, in my case the vehicle was going to be for my wife to drive. At that time she had it in her head that "I hate Station Wagons and I'll never drive a minivan" the Suburu looked like a wagon to her. Having had a kid...she suddenly appreciates practicality and interior space usage a bit more. She also insists that she have an automatic as she refuses to learn how to drive a standard. Although I'm adament that she'll need to learn one day.

If the vehicle was for myself...I'd be looking at the Suburu with the manual gear box. Especially if I could get the dealer down to what the price of a Rav4 Sport with a V6 is.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Byrns

That Sportage looks identical to a Ford Edge

CUV's tend to have a general "shape", but I would disagree that they look the same.

[henriksedin33]

Originally Posted by amorak

You rang?

http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/31/k...to-show-debut/

I gotta say, that looks pretty damn good. Looks a bit like a RX350 mated with a Tiguan (from the front at least), and those blindspots must be BRUTAL, but overall.....nice.

EDIT: 6 speed as well, sweet.

[Bertuzzied]

I've gotten a quote for the Lexus RX350 from Houston for $33k. It doesn't have AWD though.

[Canada 02]

another reason to consider Subaru

And the winners? Subaru has taken top spot among mainstream brands, with ALG projecting that after four years your Subaru will have retained 41.9 per cent of its original value. The top luxury brand is Nissan’s Infiniti, with Infiniti vehicles holding onto nearly half (47.2 per cent) of their original value after three years.

“Subaru has blazed its own trail since arriving in the Canadian market,” said Matt Traylen, ALG’s chief economist. “Subaru’s signature boxer engines and standard all-wheel-drive, as well as its solid reputation for quality, give the brand an image of ruggedness and independence and contribute to remarkable owner loyalty. The recent redesign of its three core models and restrained incentives also helped Subaru jump to the top of the rankings.”

So buy a Subaru or an Infiniti and you’ll spend less money on depreciation. Of the two, perhaps the greater surprise in this year’s report is Infiniti. A relatively small luxury player in Canada, Infiniti has maintained pricing discipline by limiting discounting.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...rticle1566274/

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by lucky1

picture is misleading.....the back seats slide all the way forward, or you can fold them flat if you want to haul something......

Nope, that's exactly the point - with the seats up, you'll have significantly less room for cargo than other CUV's in the segment.

Heck, the RAV4 with the rear seats folded down is positively cavernous.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Nope, that's exactly the point - with the seats up, you'll have significantly less room for cargo than other CUV's in the segment.

Heck, the RAV4 with the rear seats folded down is positively cavernous.

I think I can speak from a relative position of authority on this, since I do about 30 loans a month on Tiguans, and work at a pretty big VW dealer.......you are missing the point if you are comparing the Tiguan to the RAV and the CRV directly. Its like comparing a Camry to a Jetta, or a Caddilac Deville to a 5 series.

RAV4 and CRV are designed specifically with the NA market in mind. The majority of their global sales are here, hence why they are both domestic vehicles. Tiguan was designed specifically with the Euro market in mind, where smaller, more compact designs dominate. We get the left overs here. Once European demand is satisfied, then we get allocation of cars, and we cannot get enough right now in the right trim levels. The appeal of the Tiguan to many of our buyers is this fact it is smaller, sportier, and handles laughably better than either the RAV or CR-V.... by a mile.

I had the opportunity at the Tiguan launch to drive the 3 vehicles side by side in a no holds barred, race track setting at the North American Tiguan launch, and the Tiguan was carving through the track like a GTI wagon with virtually zero body roll, where as CRV's and RAV's were constantly plowing through cones, suffering from massive brake fade issues (particularly the RAV) and literally falling apart after being beat on by a bunch of maniac car dealership and VW Canada employees. Unrealistic conditions for the average driver yes, but a good marker of the build quality. If the average consumer got to see what we get to see, virtually everyone would insist on German engineered cars. Take the door panel off of an asian import, and look at the flimsy stamped steel crash beam behind a piece of plastic vapor barrier. Do the same on a German car, even a $15000 Golf city and you will find a bolted steel plate with hefty square steel pipe. People don`t realize there are more advanced and reactive versions of ABS, ESP, ASR, Airbags, delta V sensors that deploy them, grades of steel etc. Every German manufacturer typically uses the best available versions... that is why you pay more. Period. Unfortunately high tech, can lead to more headaches sometimes.

Is a VW as reliable as a CRV or RAV, no, but german cars never have, and never will be, it is impossible with the level of tech beyond the naked eye in German cars. Germany is the 'garden of eden' per say of auto tech, and german manufacturers will not compromise safety for reliability, ever. That is why Bosch and Siemens build the majority of OEM ABS, Airbag and traction control system globally.

Plus Honda and Toyota have twisted their reliability numbers by hiding recalls for years, and performing them during costumers regular service visits without disclosing it. And Toyota has been caught cheating crash tests by sending ringer vehicles to the IIHTS. Why? So they didn't dip in JD power and Consumer report reliability and safety surveys. I have seen VW recalls for incorrect emission stickers... seriously, twice. And unfortunately those types of recalls impact your reliability index. Does a wrong sticker make your car unreliable? We did have our ignition coil issue in 02 and 03, but that was a contracted part issue, just like the gas pedal issue with Toyota. The German manufacturers play it so by the book it is scary. Especially after what the media did to them over the whole Audi 5000 farce, and they don't take chances on customer safety.

Anyway, that turned into a huge rant, but when you buy a car, there is more to it than price, interest rate, and cup holders. You can buy a Timex for $60 dollars that has 30 features, a heart monitor, a radio and an MP3 player. On the other hand you can buy a Rolex for $60,000 that just keeps time, but you are paying for craftsmanship, expertise, and quality materials. The good thing about cars, is you don`t have to pay a 1000 times more to get the jump in quality.

PS: I am not a German car `Fanboy`. I there are a ton of great non German cars out there to IMO. If I left VW tommorow after 10 years with the company, I would probably drive straight to a Subaru Dealership to apply for a job. Even Hyundai is making an awesome car now for the dollar, and dare I say better than Honda on a few competing models. I came to VW 10 years ago because I used to work on the Aftermarket side of things, when the VW Mark 4 cars were being launched. We were working on 80,000 Lexuses and Caddy`s and BMW`s that weren`t built as well, nor had the same fit and finish, and that was the lure to me.

[Shin Pad]

Well, I finally bought a vehicle - I ended up with the Rav4 Sport with a 6 cylinder engine, but it was very close with the Mitsubishi Outlander and Subaru Forester. It was a very tough decision, but it came down to the fact that the Rav4 had the most power. The Subaru would have been my first choice, except that the Turbo runs on premium gas. It certainly beat the Rav4 in interior features, and I thought it was a nicer looking vehicle, but I just couldn't get past the premium gas thing. The Mitsubishi Outlander was also a nice vehicle, nicely equipped, and a great warranty, but I didn't like the front grille. Also, it didn't have as much power as the Toyota.

I think I would have been happy with any of the vehicles I test drove, but in the end, I chose the power. Not that I'm a speed freak, but I do a lot of highway driving, and I want to have enough power to pass someone when I need to, without having to get a running start at it. I also didn't want to be paying for premium gas all of the time. So, thanks to everyone for their imput.