Calgary Bylaw will give you a Stubbi

[flip]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

That's fair, I agree 100% that more ashtrays would equate to fewer butts on the ground.

But there is also no arguing the fact that smokers are much more prone to throwing their butts on the ground for lack of an ashtray, than most other people are to littering any other sort of garbage for lack of a garbage can.

For some reason the same people that will crumple up that cheeseburger wrapper and hang onto it untill they find a garbage can, think nothing about flicking a cigarette butt on the ground several times a day.

I think that directly relates to the size of the garbage. Many people won't think twice about throwing away a gum wrapper but might feel bad if they throw away a bag of garbage.

Also, and this is why a stubbi might help, is that cig butts stink and are messy. It is easy to carry a cheeseburger wrapper (or whatever) for a block. Carrying a cigarette butt is disgusting because you'll smell even worse than just smoking.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by flip

Carrying a cigarette butt is disgusting because you'll smell even worse than just smoking.

So if a smoker finds used cigarette butts digusting, imagine how the rest of the population feels about them.

[Jimdon]

This is BS, I don't want one cent of my tax dollars going to giving smokers free anything, and if you drop a cigarette butt on the ground, you should be fined just like anyone else dropping garbage on the ground.

I have no problem with people smoking, but I don't want to pick up your garbage, and I'm not buying you stupid tiny ashtrays.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

This is BS, I don't want one cent of my tax dollars going to giving smokers free anything, and if you drop a cigarette butt on the ground, you should be fined just like anyone else dropping garbage on the ground.

I have no problem with people smoking, but I don't want to pick up your garbage, and I'm not buying you stupid tiny ashtrays.

So you don't support public garbage cans for people? That is your tax dollars funding something that you may never use.

[flip]

Originally Posted by ken0042

So if a smoker finds used cigarette butts digusting, imagine how the rest of the population feels about them.

Ok. So what?

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by flip

So you don't support public garbage cans for people? That is your tax dollars funding something that you may never use.

There is a big difference between supplying public garbage cans and manufacturing and handing out free personal ashtrays, I have enough of my own habits, I don't need to fund others too.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

There is a big difference between supplying public garbage cans and manufacturing and handing out free personal ashtrays, I have enough of my own habits, I don't need to fund others too.

Well what if the rest of us don't like funding your stupid habits?

Oh wait you only want tax dollars to fund things you like...

[Tron_fdc]

Man, you guys that are annoyed with fibreglass butts should go drive past new developments and see what kind if waste is blowing around.

I lived up in Cougar Ridge when it was being built, and had the luxury of living in a corner lot that collected all kinds of crap. I'd be fining messy builders long before we fined guys for tossing butts on the sidewalk. The 10 foot chunks of insulation that contiually found their way into my yard probably accounted for a lifetime worth of butts IMO. Construction sites are constantly treated like one gigantic trash receptacle.

[Jimdon]

Originally Posted by flip

Well what if the rest of us don't like funding your stupid habits?

Oh wait you only want tax dollars to fund things you like...

You don't even know what I was taking about, so how do you assume that there is any kind of funding involved?]

...and no, I don't want tax dollars going to any kind of frivolous crap like this. There are people in Calgary that can't afford to eat, but we need more tiny ashtrays because people are too lazy to find a proper receptacle?

If you can afford to buy cigarettes, you can afford your own ashtray.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Jimdon

You don't even know what I was taking about, so how do you assume that there is any kind of funding involved?]

...and no, I don't want tax dollars going to any kind of frivolous crap like this. There are people in Calgary that can't afford to eat, but we need more tiny ashtrays because people are too lazy to find a proper receptacle?

It doesn't matter what you are talking about. I'm sure something you do involves tax dollars funding it. I'm also sure that somebody else in Calgary doesn't use that particular tax funded thing and as such they can complain about tax dollars funding you.

Maybe you use transit and others don't. Maybe you use public garbage cans and others don't. Maybe others don't have a car, yet you benefit from snow removal. Maybe some people don't play sports and you benefit from arena/field maintenance.

There are a million examples of stuff that the government funds that only benefits a minority of our population.

The public doesn't like littering. The government has responded by taking measures to prevent littering by providing Stubbis and by having huge littering fines. They could have just provided more ashtrays but they decided not to. They could have just done nothing and the number of cigarette butts would just get worse and worse.

It is a lose lose situation. They do nothing and people complain of litter. They do something and people complain that it is a waste of tax dollars.

In a perfect world all people would just hold onto their litter and throw it in a garbage when they get the chance. However if the world was perfect we wouldn't need the police, revenue Canada, speed limits or laws of any kind really because people would just deal with everything on their own. Hell in a perfect world no one would produce garbage because we would all follow the three Rs and we wouldn't even need trash pickup or garbage dumps.


Like most smoking threads I think people just hate smoking and choose to ignore common sense. Smoking is legal, littering is not. Littering of butts is a problem. The solution isn't to outlaw smoking, it is to take measures to reduce smokers from littering.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by flip

Ok. So what?

Is this just part of you pretending to be dense or are you actually this dense?

Can you seriously not gather the point of that straightforward and clear comment?

[flip]

Originally Posted by valo403

Is this just part of you pretending to be dense or are you actually this dense?

Can you seriously not gather the point of that straightforward and clear comment?

Stay classy Valo. Your contributions are invaluable. Typical garbage post. You stay classy too Ken. Thanking garbage like that. Aren't you supposed to be a beacon of good contributions instead of thanking junk like Valo's post?


No I honestly don't get his point. Me, him and the rest of society thinks cigarette butts are disgusting. Wow what a revelation. Who would have ever guessed?

What the hell does that have to do with anything? He doesn't like butts on the ground? Well no one does. WHat does he want a medal or something for telling us what we all already knew?

It was a serious response. What point is he trying to make? Is he supporting Stubbis? Not supporting them? Wants more ashtrays? Less ashtrays? What? Stating a fact everyone already knew is pretty vague.

[Methanolic]

These things used to in abundance, especialy in the core. If they were still around, I doubt the "Great Butt Crackdown" would have been necessary.

It was fine that the Province introduced the 5 Meter By-Law, But why did the City think it was ok to remove all the outdoor ashtrays?

I know hindsight is 20/20, But as usuall, there was little if any attempt at forsight in this regard.

Like I said, They moved the smokers from the doorways to the sidewalks, and gave them nothing for their refuse.

This whole campaign would not be required if a little common sense was put fourth.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by flip

Stay classy Valo. Your contributions are invaluable. Typical garbage post. You stay classy too Ken. Thanking garbage like that. Aren't you supposed to be a beacon of good contributions instead of thanking junk like Valo's post?


No I honestly don't get his point. Me, him and the rest of society thinks cigarette butts are disgusting. Wow what a revelation. Who would have ever guessed?

What the hell does that have to do with anything? He doesn't like butts on the ground? Well no one does. WHat does he want a medal or something for telling us what we all already knew?

It was a serious response. What point is he trying to make? Is he supporting Stubbis? Not supporting them? Wants more ashtrays? Less ashtrays? What? Stating a fact everyone already knew is pretty vague.

I thought the point was pretty clear that he was making.
You said that part of the reason smokers throw their butts on the ground is because they're gross and they don't want to have to hang on to them to find somewhere to throw them.

His post pointed out that if the people producing the butts find them disgusting, then those that don't smoke likely find them even more so, and hence, smokers throwing them on the ground because they're gross, is incredibly inconsiderate because they are affecting those who don't smoke and find the litter even more disgusting.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Methanolic

These things used to in abundance, especialy in the core. If they were still around, I doubt the "Great Butt Crackdown" would have been necessary.

It was fine that the Province introduced the 5 Meter By-Law, But why did the City think it was ok to remove all the outdoor ashtrays?

I know hindsight is 20/20, But as usuall, there was little if any attempt at forsight in this regard.

Like I said, They moved the smokers from the doorways to the sidewalks, and gave them nothing for their refuse.

This whole campaign would not be required if a little common sense was put fourth.

Kind of like the common sense it takes to think "Hey I'm gonna go outside and have a smoke today (my fifth of the day, for the 500th consecutive day), and there are no ashtrays out where I smoke. Maybe I should finally take some sort of receptical to throw my butt into so I don't have to throw it on the ground."

Is that the kind of common sense you're talking about?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by flip

Stay classy Valo. Your contributions are invaluable. Typical garbage post. You stay classy too Ken. Thanking garbage like that. Aren't you supposed to be a beacon of good contributions instead of thanking junk like Valo's post?


No I honestly don't get his point. Me, him and the rest of society thinks cigarette butts are disgusting. Wow what a revelation. Who would have ever guessed?

What the hell does that have to do with anything? He doesn't like butts on the ground? Well no one does. WHat does he want a medal or something for telling us what we all already knew?

It was a serious response. What point is he trying to make? Is he supporting Stubbis? Not supporting them? Wants more ashtrays? Less ashtrays? What? Stating a fact everyone already knew is pretty vague.

So not pretending??

[Methanolic]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Kind of like the common sense it takes to think "Hey I'm gonna go outside and have a smoke today (my fifth of the day, for the 500th consecutive day), and there are no ashtrays out where I smoke. Maybe I should finally take some sort of receptical to throw my butt into so I don't have to throw it on the ground."

Is that the kind of common sense you're talking about?

Nope!!

The kind I'm talking about is Proactive.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I thought the point was pretty clear that he was making.
You said that part of the reason smokers throw their butts on the ground is because they're gross and they don't want to have to hang on to them to find somewhere to throw them.

His post pointed out that if the people producing the butts find them disgusting, then those that don't smoke likely find them even more so, and hence, smokers throwing them on the ground because they're gross, is incredibly inconsiderate because they are affecting those who don't smoke and find the litter even more disgusting.

I just don't understand why that is important.

So we've established that everyone finds butts disgusting. And...?

I said I support the use of stubbis because butts are disgusting. My post is clear. I said that carrying around a wrapper is easy, carrying around a butt is not. Hence, I said I supported the Stubbis because it might allow people to use the Stubbi and then throw out the butts later because you can't just carry around a butt all day in your pocket.

He pointed out that the non-smokers hate butts even more. Again, so what? Why is that important? Is he supporting Stubbis too? Not supporting them?

I don't see why non-smokers feelings on cigarette butts is important in any way to smokers not wanting to carry around gross butts and thus why Stubbis are good.

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Kind of like the common sense it takes to think "Hey I'm gonna go outside and have a smoke today (my fifth of the day, for the 500th consecutive day), and there are no ashtrays out where I smoke. Maybe I should finally take some sort of receptical to throw my butt into so I don't have to throw it on the ground."

Is that the kind of common sense you're talking about?

But those kind of inconsiderate people probably don't care either way. Stubbi or no stubbi I don't think they're going to stop littering. I still think stubbis are a good idea but that is why ashtrays are needed. Some people are just too lazy or stupid to stop littering.

And it has nothing to do with smokers. Those same people who litter their butts will also litter their garbage. This isn't a smoker vs non-smoker debate. There are two debates. One is a considerate vs inconsiderate people and the other is stubbis vs no stubbis.

Everyone in this thread says they hate litter. So presumably none of us litter garbage, butts or anything else when we can avoid it.

Having stubbis isn't going to make litterers stop littering. But it might help people who want to have a smoke and have no means of disposing of their cigarette when they are done.

I like the idea of stubbis because it might help people avoid littering when they can but people who are going to litter are going to litter. But that is why the big fine was put into place. I would prefer more ashtrays over stubbis but whatever.

Even if there were free stubbis everywhere, ashtrays at every doorway and corner, some people would still litter. Just like how people still litter their garbage despite there being garbage cans everywhere around the city.

[Mad Mel]

Simple solution. Smokers should only be allowed to smoke out in traffic. Then when it rains, the butts will wash down the drain and end up in Saskatchewan, and eventually the smokers will get killed off. Problem solved.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by flip

I just don't understand why that is important.

So we've established that everyone finds butts disgusting. And...?

I said I support the use of stubbis because butts are disgusting. My post is clear. I said that carrying around a wrapper is easy, carrying around a butt is not. Hence, I said I supported the Stubbis because it might allow people to use the Stubbi and then throw out the butts later because you can't just carry around a butt all day in your pocket.

He pointed out that the non-smokers hate butts even more. Again, so what? Why is that important? Is he supporting Stubbis too? Not supporting them?

I don't see why non-smokers feelings on cigarette butts is important in any way to smokers not wanting to carry around gross butts and thus why Stubbis are good.

Just because it was an extension of something you pointed out doesn't mean that it is addressed only at you. It was a general point as to how people feel about butts laying all over the place. Is that okay, or do people have to state their stubbi allegiances in order to make a valid point?