What the Flames (and others) apparently offered for Lindros

[FAN]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Agreed. There is a reason this guy is borderline HOF. During his prime, he was THE BEST in the league. And this is with #99 and #66 still playing. Don't let his last couple of seasons fool you. Had he stayed injury free, we might be looking at one of the top 20-30 players of all time. Never before had the league seen a player with such a great combination of skill, scoring, toughness and physicality. A shame he couldn't learn to keep his head up.

I think Mario Lemieux remains the most talented player to ever play the game and was every bit Lindros' physical equal. Lemieux just didn't enter the league as a burly player and didn't play the type of reckless power game that Lindros did, mostly because Lemieux didn't need to. But the stuff about Lindros being physically unstoppable was said about Lemieux.

A lot was made about Lemieux passing the torch to Lindros when Lindros' Flyers defeated Lemieux's Penguins (Lemieux retired for the first time afterwards). But I really don't think Lindros was ever the clearcut best player in the league the same way Lemieux and Jagr did.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

I always thought Messier was involved in the Rangers-Flyers deal for some reason.

I think the story was that the Flyers deal was initially accepted and then the Rangers deal came along and the Nords accepted that one as well. An arbitrator eventually ruled in favour of the Flyers since it was the first one to come along.

I think the Rangers deal actually was the best one. It had the cash, an extra first round pick and three superstars - think about how good Amonte, Kovalev and Weight all were in their primes. We're talking two 40-goal scorers and a 90-100 point player all in an era where those types were rare commodities. Forsberg was great but those three would have been over the top.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by T@T

Flames offer wasn't much at the time compared.

I'm surprised they didn't take the NY offer, Kovalev was highly toted, as were Amonte and Weight coming out of college with big numbers. Vanbiesbrouck was one of the best in those years. 12m and 3 more first rounders.

They took the Forsberg package knowing he was signed in Sweden for 3 more years...interesting.

They did take the Rangers offer, but the league office negated the deal.



Not sure why a whole gaggle 'thanked' the original post. As interesting as this topic always is, none of those offers are exactly new revalations.

Lindros turned out to be Baby Hughy. The deal with his parents, with dictating where he would play dated back to his junior days. Remember the controversy over not playing in Quebec (btw, the Avs should thank him for helping them win)? Well, the Lindros clan pulled the same stunt with Sault Ste. Marie to force a trade to Oshawa, so he'd be closer to the Center of the Hockey Universe (Toronto).

As a precedence, scouting needs to include more psychological profiling to help forecast. Somebody could write a decent master's thesis on how Lindros's teenaged behavior precluded how he'd never achieve true HHOF status in his professional career, in light of the rare combination of strength and talent. Emotionally, the guy didn't have it all there.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Not relevant.

We lost Vernon for nothing,

Steve Chaisson says hello.

[awildermode]

In hind sight, i think Lindros would have preferred to be traded to New Jersey.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

I always thought Messier was involved in the Rangers-Flyers deal for some reason.

I think the story was that the Flyers deal was initially accepted and then the Rangers deal came along and the Nords accepted that one as well. An arbitrator eventually ruled in favour of the Flyers since it was the first one to come along.

I think the Rangers deal actually was the best one. It had the cash, an extra first round pick and three superstars - think about how good Amonte, Kovalev and Weight all were in their primes. We're talking two 40-goal scorers and a 90-100 point player all in an era where those types were rare commodities. Forsberg was great but those three would have been over the top.

Todd Bertuzzi's uncle was the arbitrator!

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

Lindros turned out to be Baby Hughy. The deal with his parents, with dictating where he would play dated back to his junior days. Remember the controversy over not playing in Quebec (btw, the Avs should thank him for helping them win)? Well, the Lindros clan pulled the same stunt with Sault Ste. Marie to force a trade to Oshawa, so he'd be closer to the Center of the Hockey Universe (Toronto).

As a precedence, scouting needs to include more psychological profiling to help forecast. Somebody could write a decent master's thesis on how Lindros's teenaged behavior precluded how he'd never achieve true HHOF status in his professional career, in light of the rare combination of strength and talent. Emotionally, the guy didn't have it all there.

They did and they do, but as the scouts are saying 'he's a huge prima donna who will be a major pain to coach' the GM just stares at the stats dreamily mumbleing 'he's so big and strong, and big!!!'

[Azure]

Lindros over Forsberg?

Tough decision.

Forsberg in his prime was one hell of a player too.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

They did and they do, but as the scouts are saying 'he's a huge prima donna who will be a major pain to coach' the GM just stares at the stats dreamily mumbleing 'he's so big and strong, and big!!!'

Scouting is so much better now than it was in the 90s as well and this is a big reason for that. Busts in the top 5 used to be commonplace but now you rarely see it. Maybe the only arguable top five "bust" since 2002 is Thomas Hickey and (a) he was taken off the board and (b) he's young and the jury's still out.

The days of Scott Scissons and Dave Chyzowski are long gone.

[MikeMc]

Originally Posted by MikeN

Man no kidding.

No way. if Lindros was healthy his whole career he would have been a shoe in for the HOF. He probably still will get in too.

He was absolutely dominante in his days before the concussions.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

Not sure why a whole gaggle 'thanked' the original post. As interesting as this topic always is, none of those offers are exactly new revalations.

It was new news to me but thanks for reminding me. I almost forgot to thank it.

[IntenseFan]

One thing that might be pointed out here is that the game changed significantly from the mid-90s to the late-90s.

The New Jersey's and European teams of the world found out if you got way bigger, played a stiffling and agressive defensive system, and obstructed as much as possible (with the NHL not wanting to crack down), you had a better chance at winning with less skill.

I think Lindros' injuries came about because of this change in the game. When he broke in to the league he had a huge physical advantage which was abated when teams started to get huge and to hook/hold him and hit him harder.

So I suppose this was the long way of saying that he stood a good chance of getting injured no matter which team he played for and things probably wouldn't have been that different for him personally.

[TSXCman]

It's almost like people don't get time travel rules, we can go with back to the future rules for simplicity.

If he was traded to anywhere than where he ended up, then he wouldnt have been in the same situations. The concussion problems werent something the guy was born with and destined to have, he just got his brain rattled in a situation and it got worse from there. so MAYBE those heavy weighted trades could have all been worth it. no one has a right answer in these kind of hypotheticals of course

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by puckluck

It was new news to me but thanks for reminding me. I almost forgot to thank it.

Yeah, I keep forgetting about 15 year olds, armed with Blackberrys, logging into the forum.

[IntenseFan]

Originally Posted by TSXCman

The concussion problems werent something the guy was born with and destined to have, he just got his brain rattled in a situation and it got worse from there. so MAYBE those heavy weighted trades could have all been worth it. no one has a right answer in these kind of hypotheticals of course

I would agree you can't positively predict an alternate past, but he did seem to have a family history of concussion problems (i.e. his bro), so I feel safe in my prediction.

I was careful to say things for him personally wouldn't have enede up that differently (i.e. MVP, tied for scoring title, etc.). For the team that got him in the alternate time line, that would be different.

[omelete]

Originally Posted by TSXCman

It's almost like people don't get time travel rules, we can go with back to the future rules for simplicity.

If he was traded to anywhere than where he ended up, then he wouldnt have been in the same situations. The concussion problems werent something the guy was born with and destined to have, he just got his brain rattled in a situation and it got worse from there. so MAYBE those heavy weighted trades could have all been worth it. no one has a right answer in these kind of hypotheticals of course

I would argue that it's very likely he would have had concussion/injury problems no matter where he went.

1. He played recklessly. It was part of what made him dominant ( when he was able to play ).
2. He had a bad habit of skating with his head down.
3. He was made of glass.

It was a recipe for disaster. It's too bad because when he was healthy he was a force of nature.

[Buster]

I think Lindros was probably over-rated before his career, and under-rated since his retirement.

(It also should be noted that the NHL/teams/medical staff handle concussions much differently now than they did even five years ago.

[AC]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

Not sure why a whole gaggle 'thanked' the original post. As interesting as this topic always is, none of those offers are exactly new revalations.

Haha, why do you care exactly? I'm not sure why it matters.

It may not be new to you, but it was obviously new to some.

[Playfair]

Originally Posted by FlamingInfinity

Would Iggy still have ended up here then? Probably not. Interesting to see how highly sought after Lindros was.

Lindros was considered the next Great One after Gretzky and Lemieux. 99, 66, 88...

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

Yeah, I keep forgetting about 15 year olds, armed with Blackberrys, logging into the forum.

The funny thing is that I read this message via Blackberry lol but who pissed in your corn flakes? I thought this thread was very useful since I had no idea Calgary was in the mix for Lindros. AC works hard in finding and posting that information and you're having a hissy fit on why he gets thanked because you already knew about it? Seems like you're the one acting like a 15 year old.