Attack in the Beltline Last Night

[FlamesGirl]

Ducay - maybe I'm kidding myself, but I'm pretty sure if it came between a girl walking by herself or a girl walking with an alert, 75 lb dog at her side...the attacker is going to pick the easiest target.

I've already experienced a scary incident that ended ONLY because my dog went into protection mode and started snarling at a car full of guys who thought harassing me was fun. If I hadn't had my dog with me, pretty sure there would have been a different ending to that story.

[FlamesKickAss]

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by FlamesGirl

Ducay - maybe I'm kidding myself, but I'm pretty sure if it came between a girl walking by herself or a girl walking with an alert, 75 lb dog at her side...the attacker is going to pick the easiest target.

I've already experienced a scary incident that ended ONLY because my dog went into protection mode and started snarling at a car full of guys who thought harassing me was fun. If I hadn't had my dog with me, pretty sure there would have been a different ending to that story.

don't worry about it - he probably owns a pug and is basing his opinion on his own dog.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Consider yourself lucky that you didn't do anything more. If you would have chased and caught him, the cops probably would have told you you're an idiot. Running the risk of getting stabbed/beaten/shot yourself is not worth catching some dude who would probably just get a slap on the wrists for a minor assualt.

When good people do nothing, evil prevails. Thankfully someone on this forum at least did something. If everyone did something every time, issues like this likely would not happen.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

When good people do nothing, evil prevails. Thankfully someone on this forum at least did something. If everyone did something every time, issues like this likely would not happen.

Clearly my post was about how the OP should have stayed indoors and ignored the issue

Defuse situation, cause attacker to flee = good

Chasing after said attacker = Idiot trying to be a hero

[Huntingwhale]

[CaptainCrunch]

Good job man, but what you should have done when he took off was follow him at a discrete distance, then when he gets home you firebomb his house.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Clearly my post was about how the OP should have stayed indoors and ignored the issue

Defuse situation, cause attacker to flee = good

Chasing after said attacker = Idiot trying to be a hero

I am not sure if I agree with you. I think that if good people fight back there will be less bad people trying stuff. My theory is based on the fact that I also believe there are more good people than bad, so we basically outnumber bad people. If some good people chased bad people, even though it is risky, it might make bad people apprehensive to try something. Sorry for all the good guy bad guy stuff!

Besides, we seem to be able to send people overseas to die for us yet we can't seem to get over protecting ourselves here.

I would have chased that person. I know that is not for everyone and I also know it is risky. I just can't sit back when stuff like that happens.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Besides, we seem to be able to send people overseas to die for us yet we can't seem to get over protecting ourselves here.

We send trained and armed soldiers who volunteered for the job overseas to fight. There's a big difference between that and hanging out on your couch watching tv wearing jeans and a t-shirt and no shoes and then suddenly and unwittingly become involved in a violent situation outside your door.

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I would have chased that person. I know that is not for everyone and I also know it is risky. I just can't sit back when stuff like that happens.

It's easy to say that after you've read the story and then had some time to think it over and envision what you would have done. The thing is that it is difficult to predict how you would react if you're suddenly thrust into a situation like that. Not to say there isn't some nobility to what you are saying of course. I'm just saying that what you think you would do can be a lot different than what you actually do when you've got a burst of adrenaline and no time to think.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Chasing after said attacker = Idiot trying to be a hero

I guess if you think personal safety overrides all other considerations, then that's a reasonable stance. They have a name for people like that, and it's worse than "idiot".

I don't think I need police training to figure out that if he had a weapon, he'd be using it to keep his victim scared and quiet, not struggling with her. Further, chasing someone doesn't necessarily mean you are going to try and take him down, following him just to point him out to the cops can work too.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by jammies

I guess if you think personal safety overrides all other considerations, then that's a reasonable stance. They have a name for people like that, and it's worse than "idiot".

I don't think I need police training to figure out that if he had a weapon, he'd be using it to keep his victim scared and quiet, not struggling with her. Further, chasing someone doesn't necessarily mean you are going to try and take him down, following him just to point him out to the cops can work too.

Sure, if you can follow at a safe distance and point his whereabouts to the police, sure, by all means follow him.


I don't think you can assume he doesn't have a weapon just because he didn't show it already. Maybe he was just beatin his girlfriend and didn't need to show his gun (she already knew he carries). There are about a million and one other ridiculous situations I could come up with that end up with you getting harmed after chasing said bad guy down.

I'd love to get an actual CPS officer in here. Im nearly positive they'd say the same thing they do with every situation "call 911 and report the situation as best you ca, trying to be a hero helps nobody"

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Sure, if you can follow at a safe distance and point his whereabouts to the police, sure, by all means follow him.


I don't think you can assume he doesn't have a weapon just because he didn't show it already. Maybe he was just beatin his girlfriend and didn't need to show his gun (she already knew he carries). There are about a million and one other ridiculous situations I could come up with that end up with you getting harmed after chasing said bad guy down.

I'd love to get an actual CPS officer in here. Im nearly positive they'd say the same thing they do with every situation "call 911 and report the situation as best you ca, trying to be a hero helps nobody"

Lets use the proper words when describing what this guy did. What he did was heroic. He was not trying to be a hero. He was stopping a violent incident and then trying to make sure the person who did it gets caught. I am very sure he wasn't thinking... "Oh, I see a woman being attacked I think I will try to be a hero. I bet I will be more of a hero if I catch him too."

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

We send trained and armed soldiers who volunteered for the job overseas to fight. There's a big difference between that and hanging out on your couch watching tv wearing jeans and a t-shirt and no shoes and then suddenly and unwittingly become involved in a violent situation outside your door.

I did not say he should have done something. I know I would have done something and hope more people would do something. I think it is lame we depend only on the police to protect ourselves. I think the average citizen should be willing to take a stand, if the situation permits that.

Originally Posted by frinkprof

It's easy to say that after you've read the story and then had some time to think it over and envision what you would have done. The thing is that it is difficult to predict how you would react if you're suddenly thrust into a situation like that. Not to say there isn't some nobility to what you are saying of course. I'm just saying that what you think you would do can be a lot different than what you actually do when you've got a burst of adrenaline and no time to think.

I would have been out that door as soon as I saw something going down. I can't blame people for doing nothing, since we seem to be taught that is the right thing to do. Just call 911, don't be a fool is what we all grew up with. I simply disagree with that lesson. If I see a guy that should not be where they are I intervene 100% of the time. Guy in the shadows in a parking lot skulking around? I intervene. A crime taking place? I intervene. The criminals depend on the fact that in Calgary, as a whole we pretty much do nothing.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

Lets use the proper words when describing what this guy did. What he did was heroic. He was not trying to be a hero. He was stopping a violent incident and then trying to make sure the person who did it gets caught. I am very sure he wasn't thinking... "Oh, I see a woman being attacked I think I will try to be a hero. I bet I will be more of a hero if I catch him too."

I don't think anyone is saying what he did wasn't very admirable and heroic, just that chasing blindly when the immediate threat is gone is pretty stupid. If you know all the variables or are trained to deal with such situations than by all means give chase, but if you're just an average guy (presumably watching surfing videos on his couch) you're not making a smart choice to blindly pursue someone who is known to be dangerous. All that does is increase the likelihood of further victims. He did exactly what any police officer would tell you he should have done, stopped the immediate threat, did what he could to get a good description of the attacker and let the police take care of the actual confrontation.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I did not say he should have done something. I know I would have done something and hope more people would do something. I think it is lame we depend only on the police to protect ourselves. I think the average citizen should be willing to take a stand, if the situation permits that.



I would have been out that door as soon as I saw something going down. I can't blame people for doing nothing, since we seem to be taught that is the right thing to do. Just call 911, don't be a fool is what we all grew up with. I simply disagree with that lesson. If I see a guy that should not be where they are I intervene 100% of the time. Guy in the shadows in a parking lot skulking around? I intervene. A crime taking place? I intervene. The criminals depend on the fact that in Calgary, as a whole we pretty much do nothing.

How do you know what this situation permitted?

BTW, he did intervene. His actions prevented further violence towards the victim.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

Lets use the proper words when describing what this guy did. What he did was heroic. He was not trying to be a hero. He was stopping a violent incident and then trying to make sure the person who did it gets caught. I am very sure he wasn't thinking... "Oh, I see a woman being attacked I think I will try to be a hero. I bet I will be more of a hero if I catch him too."

I feel like you've neglected to read the thread or anything I've posted. I comended the OP for what he did. However, I disconcured with his idea that he should have chased after the guy. That was the part where being a "hero" would get you nothing but problems.

[stang]

I think Ducay is being misunderstood a little. What he is trying to say is what the OP did was the correct thing to do. Breaking up the incident was the correct action. The guy took off running.

Following and giving chase and potentially becoming a victim yourself after the immediate threat is over could be potentially life threatening.

When Ducay used the word "hero" I dont think he was trying to make it sound like the OP wasnt a hero. He was using it in "I will bring this bad guy down and serve some justice" way.

Good on you OP. I think you handled it the correct way. As a Husband and father of 2, I would probally do the same thing, and if it were my Wife/Daughter/sister/mother in that situation, I would be so grateful to just have the same thing done. The girl is out of harms way and the authorities are on there way. Perfect.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by valo403

How do you know what this situation permitted?

BTW, he did intervene. His actions prevented further violence towards the victim.

I don't know what this situation permitted...why are you asking me?

And if you read my post, you would see I support the fact people intervene. I also know not everyone can intervene and that we are also taught to do nothing, which IMO sucks.

Did you mean to point those questions at me???

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I don't know what this situation permitted...why are you asking me?

And if you read my post, you would see I support the fact people intervene. I also know not everyone can intervene and that we are also taught to do nothing, which IMO sucks.

Did you mean to point those questions at me???

You were talking about all the things you would have done, but you had no idea what the situation was.

It's really easy to sit behind a keyboard and say 'ya, I would have chased the guy down and then stood over him triumphantly', but if you don't know the situation you have absolutely no idea what was practical, let alone advisable.

And we aren't taught to do nothing, I have no idea where you're pulling that from, we're taught to intervene to the extent possible without adding additional victims to the situation. That's exactly what happened here.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by valo403

You were talking about all the things you would have done, but you had no idea what the situation was.

Based on what I know, I would have intervened (Did someone mentions specifics, I certainly did not). Based on what I know, the OP intervened. Absolutely, had I known the perp was a ninja and was chucking throwing stars like he was the bonus level in Shinobi, I would have called 911. I know enough about myself to know that I would venture into harms way to help someone to a certain extent.

Originally Posted by valo403

It's really easy to sit behind a keyboard and say 'ya, I would have chased the guy down and then stood over him triumphantly', but if you don't know the situation you have absolutely no idea what was practical, let alone advisable.

So you have decided to be the 'net cop to not let people ever say what they think they would have done? I likely would have done something knowing the guy was attacking someone. Choosing to tackle the perp versus simply following till cops showed up is a different story. Based on what I have done in my life I know what I would do. But you can keep on posting if you like.

Originally Posted by valo403

And we aren't taught to do nothing, I have no idea where you're pulling that from, we're taught to intervene to the extent possible without adding additional victims to the situation. That's exactly what happened here.

LOL, where do you come up with this stuff? If you read the thread you see many posters saying stuff like the OP's situation should be left for the police. Many people grow up learning to not intervene and depend on the police. In fact, every cop and 911 call tells you the same thing. I simply disagree and think people should intervene. There are famous stories of people not doing anything and even not calling 911 since they feel someone else will make that call. Unfortunately, no call ever was made since everyone was depending on everyone else to do something. I am not made up that way, I simply act quickly. I am not sure about you, since I don't know you.

I think you are posting against the wrong person, so I will make my stance very clear for you: I think people should intervene because when good people do nothing evil prevails. Unfortunately, as a society we fail miserably as the evildoers do their thing knowing the majority of people sit back and do nothing. It is nice to read a post where someone stepped out and even though it put themselves at risk, they helped someone.

Neighborhood watch groups, street angels and other 'special groups' exist for the reason that we have unfortunately sat back too much.