SeaWorld trainer killed by whale in Orlando - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Puppet Guy · 02-24-2010, 04:04 PM

so THAT'S where Wellwood is spending his Olympic break!

Ice · 02-24-2010, 05:54 PM

I always thought the wetsuits they wear should be designed in such a way they don't resemble anything the whale would want to throw around and eat in the wild. We all know how they handles seals before they eat them. A trainer in a dark wetsuit might look pretty similar, especially if the whale is hungry.

I wonder why they tried training a whale that has a history of being violent. There are retirement pools for whales who are no longer performing, perhaps that's where this whale belongs. I can't really see killing it for doing what comes naturally to it.

HOOT · 02-24-2010, 06:02 PM

Reminds me a Chris Rock stand-up, except about whales.

That whale didn't go crazy, that whale went whale.

Mightyfire89 · 02-24-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOT

Reminds me a Chris Rock stand-up, except about whales.

That whale didn't go crazy, that whale went whale.

Exactly HOOT. They're exceptionally intelligent animals, so I can imagine how frustrated, bored and pissed off they are having to live in an oversized goddamned swimming pool most of their life instead of the ocean. Frankly, I'm surprised this doesn't happen far more often than it does. And no, I'm not a fan of PETA or an animal rights nut or anything like that. I just understand why this kind of thing can happen when you cage wild animals, regardless of the purpose.

Jake · 02-24-2010, 07:11 PM

I would strongly caution you against saying that even the most intelligent animals are capable of being "frustrated, bored and pissed off".

I work in a similar type of park in a training department. These animals are NOT wild. They are far from it. The argument "these are wild animals, I'm not suprised" is typical of someone whom has absolutely no experience in training.

Peanut · 02-24-2010, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

I would strongly caution you against saying that even the most intelligent animals are capable of being "frustrated, bored and pissed off".

I work in a similar type of park in a training department. These animals are NOT wild. They are far from it. The argument "these are wild animals, I'm not suprised" is typical of someone whom has absolutely no experience in training.

Okay, so maybe not "pissed off" or "bored", but I have a hard time buying the argument that captivity has no bearing on a whale's behaviour, considering they've evolved to naturally swim however many kilometers in a typical ocean day.

So if it's not wild, but also not "trained" (evidently... it killed someone), then what is it, exactly?

HOOT · 02-24-2010, 07:30 PM

As far as I'm concerned people can do what they want with these animals as long as their is no abuse BUT if said animal attacks you or someone else don't come crying to world about it. Trained or not, bored or not, pissed off or not, these are still animals and you can train them but there are just somethings you can't take out of a animal, just like a person.

FlamesAddiction · 02-24-2010, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOT

Reminds me a Chris Rock stand-up, except about whales.

That whale didn't go crazy, that whale went whale.

Killer whales (or orcas) are in fact not whales at all, but are the largest member of the dolphin family... therefore your joke makes no sense.

(And yes, I am just being a ######)

RockOnRoberts · 02-24-2010, 07:58 PM

Well its a good thing this whale is no longer in Canada, because the justice system would have him back on the streets in 3 weeks tops.

JD · 02-24-2010, 08:06 PM

Well nobody's said it yet, so someone has to.

It's about time we exterminated all whales.

or...

I for one welcome our new whale (dolphin?) overlords.

phiten · 02-24-2010, 08:15 PM

Hopefully it wasn't Daryl...I thought he was in Orlando working deals for booth and vinny

Jake · 02-24-2010, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peanut

Okay, so maybe not "pissed off" or "bored", but I have a hard time buying the argument that captivity has no bearing on a whale's behaviour, considering they've evolved to naturally swim however many kilometers in a typical ocean day.

So if it's not wild, but also not "trained" (evidently... it killed someone), then what is it, exactly?

Saying the orca was not trained is incorrect. It was trained to accept food by hand, to propel humans into the air, to beach itself etc. Acting out badly once is not a sign it was not trained, or that it was wild.

Dolphins and orcas are thrown "toys", such as bouys, to play with all the time. If the woman fell in the water, as is said in the article (it also says the whale might have gone out of the water and grabbed the woman-so who knows what happened), it may have been a misunderstanding, which with a such a powerful animal can be extremely costly. There are many possible scenarios which could explain this though. The "wild animal" argument has no validity, especially since it has been in captivity for a long time (Wikipedia says it was captured in 1983, and was 2 years old).

HOOT · 02-24-2010, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Killer whales (or orcas) are in fact not whales at all, but are the largest member of the dolphin family... therefore your joke makes no sense.

(And yes, I am just being a ######)

The largest member of the dolphin family didn't go crazy, the largest member of the dolphin family went the largest member of the dolphin family.

FlamesAddiction · 02-24-2010, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOT

The largest member of the dolphin family didn't go crazy, the largest member of the dolphin family went the largest member of the dolphin family.

Yeah, it doesn't seem to have the same ring to it.

FlamesAddiction · 02-24-2010, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

Saying the orca was not trained is incorrect. It was trained to accept food by hand, to propel humans into the air, to beach itself etc. Acting out badly once is not a sign it was not trained, or that it was wild.

Dolphins and orcas are thrown "toys", such as bouys, to play with all the time. If the woman fell in the water, as is said in the article (it also says the whale might have gone out of the water and grabbed the woman-so who knows what happened), it may have been a misunderstanding, which with a such a powerful animal can be extremely costly. There are many possible scenarios which could explain this though. The "wild animal" argument has no validity, especially since it has been in captivity for a long time (Wikipedia says it was captured in 1983, and was 2 years old).

All those things it was "trained" to do are things it would know how to do in the wild.... just how they are applied was changed. Killer whales play with things they find in the ocean and beach themselves to catch prey. You can try to condition the whales to not apply those skills as they would in the wild, but you can't reason with them like you would a person - hence wild animal is still a wild animal.

Instincts haven't been selectively bred out of them yet. Even in humans, certain images will trigger flight or flight urges... the only difference is that we can reason with them.

Jake · 02-24-2010, 09:58 PM

This was not natural or "wild" behaviour in any way, shape or form, but you are talking about natural instincts? Since when is it a natural instinct for an orca to beach itself and grab a human to play with or consume? There has never been a recorded human death attributed to an orca in the open ocean.

The orca has been in captivity for 30 years. It was about as wild as I am.

This isn't a situation where we can draw comparisons with human behaviour.

HOOT · 02-24-2010, 10:00 PM

How many people have died due to an orca in captivity?

Maybe they are trying to hint to us.

FurnaceFace · 02-24-2010, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Komskies

I blame the Vancouver Canucks for this.

VANOC, it's the popular thing to do.

4X4 · 02-24-2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

This was not natural or "wild" behaviour in any way, shape or form, but you are talking about natural instincts? Since when is it a natural instinct for an orca to beach itself and grab a human to play with or consume? There has never been a recorded human death attributed to an orca in the open ocean.

The orca has been in captivity for 30 years. It was about as wild as I am.

This isn't a situation where we can draw comparisons with human behaviour.

A couple million years of evolution disagrees. Wild animals aren't tamed in 30 years. It takes generations upon generations to get the "wild" out of the animal. Are you serious, or am I missing the sarcasm?

carom · 02-24-2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jake

This was not natural or "wild" behaviour in any way, shape or form, but you are talking about natural instincts? Since when is it a natural instinct for an orca to beach itself and grab a human to play with or consume? There has never been a recorded human death attributed to an orca in the open ocean.

The orca has been in captivity for 30 years. It was about as wild as I am.

This isn't a situation where we can draw comparisons with human behaviour.

Since when is it natural for a whale to live in an oversized swimming pool?

Captivity = Animal prison.

I am not a PETA person (in fact I am a proud omnivore), but you cant predict how a human will act 100% of the time in a prison and I am not surprised that you cant condition an animal to be controllable in an unnatural environment 100% of the time. I understand that animals raised in captivity may never be able to be introduced into the wild, but last time I checked living things are not programmable robots. If you choose to work with something in an unnatural environment you have to accept all of the possible consequences of this. It is just as much the whales fault as it is the trainers.

Whatever happened to that tiger that ate that dudes arm at the Calgary zoo? I see a situational difference, but not a fundamental one.