The Womens hockey tourney format should be changed. - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

pylon · 02-14-2010, 03:16 AM

The current womens hockey format is just silly. You have only 3 countries that have a chance to medal. As much as I want Canada to win, watching that Slovakia debacle was kinda tough to watch.

The IOC denied the female ski jumpers the chance to compete siting the fact that there is an imbalance of qualified competitors and they didn't want a watered down, imbalanced result. Is the women's hockey tournament really any different? Even the mens tournament seems to be a 4 maybe 5 horse race, but at least there is somewhat more parity. I think a better format would be to have a 3 division system. Add a ninth team, and based on world rankings you could have a 3 team round robin division format:

You play each team twice, and the top 2 play a final game for their divisions medal.

1-3 for compete for gold. (Canada, Sweden, US)
4-6 for silver
7-9 for bronze

Until there is more parity it just seems to make more sense, and would be way more exciting. If Canada or the US win the silver, it seems to be as bad as finishing last to them anyway, your kinda just the first loser in that scenario. This way you have countries at least have a chance to walk away with something, and you don't see embarrasing blowouts like we saw tonight, and it would be much more exciting to see 4 games against more evenly matched rivals.

I fear if this goes on much longer in the women's division, they will drop the event, which is pretty unfair as well.

Superfraggle · 02-14-2010, 06:37 AM

So the second best team in the world gets nothing, but fourth gets silver and seventh gets bronze? Not gonna fly. Countries actually care about their medal counts. Even the silver and bronzes.

While you're right that the disparity between the teams is huge, it's not realistic to tell certain teams they aren't allowed to compete for gold. There needs to be at least some way for the lower seeds to earn the right to play for gold.

Devils'Advocate · 02-14-2010, 06:55 AM

I agree with Superfraggle. That's just not going to fly. Sweden want their silver or bronze. It would be wrong to strip them of 2nd or 3rd and make them go home with nothing.

Just as they said during the mens junior tournament, the women of Slovakia WANT to play the best of the best. I remember when I was in competitive chess... I wanted to play the best players because I learned from them. You don't learn as much playing teams weaker than you. Which is why the Canadian women often will play games against mens teams.

Just like in the men's junior (and POSSIBLY the Olympic mens vs Norway) you have to ignore the early blowouts.

Hemi-Cuda · 02-14-2010, 08:15 AM

it really shouldn't even be an Olympic event when only 3 countries have a chance at medaling. if in a few years time the competitiveness can be brought up then re-institute it, but there's no point in having it included right now

mrdeeds · 02-14-2010, 08:34 AM

Agree, wholeheartedly. I remember the Eddie the Eagle debacle in 88 and the steps that were taken to prevent such occurances again. Unfortunately, this sport does not belong in the Winter Games at this time.

Devils'Advocate · 02-14-2010, 08:48 AM

I think eliminating all these events will be a huge step backwards for women's sports. Which will be a good thing for the misogynists that believe the Olympics and sports in general should be reserved for men only. And if you don't think that's a common view held here, try the countries that are below Canada, U.S., Finland and Sweden in hockey. It is a very common view in Russia, China, Japan.... and even in Finland the women's sports program got severely slashed in the 90s while the mens funding was barely touched.

If you want women to participate in sports, they have to be able to succeed at the highest levels. If you keep cutting event after event after event from the womens side of the Olympics, women will get the message you want: They belong barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen making you a sandwich.

killer_carlson · 02-14-2010, 09:20 AM

Re: only three countries have a chance at medalling, I could say the same thing about:

Swimming
Cross country skiing
Marathon and Long Distance Running

It's just so typically Canadian to say to ban the only one of the group that we're really good at. I think you're also forgetting that curling was this way for about 10 years as well....now....I think that we'll all be surprised at south east asia as well.

Resolute 14 · 02-14-2010, 09:51 AM

Read The Hockey News' Olympic preview. Everything that needs to be said about why women's hockey is in the program, and why it should stay was written there.

transplant99 · 02-14-2010, 10:07 AM

Yeah...as unfortunate as it is to see this kind of result at this level, it really is the only way for these lower tier countries to get any better. Nothing else will get them the experience they need faster and in more detail than the biggest stage on earth.

no need to punish the ones at the top for the inexperience of the ones at the bottom.

Yamer · 02-14-2010, 10:09 AM

Are we going to discuss this every international tournament after one team gets blown out? I understand the motivation for change, but the argument seems to re-hash itself time and time again. It's getting kinda old.

However, in the spirit of the topic, I would like to see maybe a different tie-break formula than goals for and against. That rule really creates an atmosphere of "score as many as possible, just in case". Maybe extend the program a day or two and have a play-off day/game for any tie-breaks. The only thing I would be concerned about in this format would be not maintaining a 60 minute effort through the games. Of course, I consider protecting a lead for as long as possible as being part of a 60 minute effort.

Until other countries say they don't want to compete it will remain the same.

Fire · 02-14-2010, 10:44 AM

Thread = Epic Fail

silentsim · 02-14-2010, 11:20 AM

in qualifiers the women slovakia team beat another team 82-0, so im sure they were happy enough just to play Canada

MRCboicgy · 02-14-2010, 11:56 AM

Isn't Finland ranked 3rd in the world though, ahead of the Swedes?

Edit: yep, by 40 points according to the iihf

moon · 02-14-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Re: only three countries have a chance at medalling, I could say the same thing about:

Swimming
Cross country skiing
Marathon and Long Distance Running

How could you say the same thing about those events when many different countries medal in them each Olympics?

Flaming Choy · 02-14-2010, 02:56 PM

who would pay to watch the bronze medal game of china vs. slovakia (or any of the lower pool games)?

DownhillGoat · 02-15-2010, 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaming Choy

who would pay to watch the bronze medal game of china vs. slovakia (or any of the lower pool games)?

The Chinese? The Slovaks?

Anywhoo, dividing the medals into 3 groups is on par with saying only one of the top three ski jumpers is going to get a medal. Hardly fair to the top 3. Why not just hand out participation medals and make all the countries feel warm and fuzzy about themselves?

hockeycop · 02-15-2010, 01:03 PM

Absolutely NOT! I have copied my post from the mercy rule thread which applies to this as well:

Quote:

No to a mercy rule. That soft hearted "oh poor (insert country here)" garbage is detrimental to their programs.

The game tape alone that Slovakia can take back and use all year is of huge value. They have a full 60 minutes that they can pick out game situations and practice. They can both come up with ways to defend against a team with Canada's skill, and they can look at Canada's offensive system and pick out parts that could be used in their program.

A mercy rule would make the whole tape completely irrelevant. They would still try to use it, but instead of having real situations to base coaching efforts off of, they would have a Canadian team on tape who are not trying at all. Coaching based on that means that next year, they'll lose 25-0.

For anyone in favor of a mercy rule, watch the sport with your heads, not your hearts. When you make decisions based on soft and cuddly notions, you build a program that becomes soft.

Canada started playing Midget AAA boys teams this year. They were not as good as the Midget AAA boys at the beginning of the year, but by the end of the year they were quite competitive games. The only way to improve is to play hard against teams who are better than you (who are also playing hard).

KTown · 02-15-2010, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeycop

Absolutely NOT! I have copied my post from the mercy rule thread which applies to this as well:

Canada started playing Midget AAA boys teams this year. They were not as good as the Midget AAA boys at the beginning of the year, but by the end of the year they were quite competitive games. The only way to improve is to play hard against teams who are better than you (who are also playing hard).

The canadian women have been playing Midget AAA boys for alot longer than this year, trust me I know from experience.

That being said the slovaks have like 220 some odd females registered in womens hockey, hard to field a competitive team, I am shocked that the slovak olympic/sporting committee would even pay to send them to the olympics. With that being said I could care less about womens hockey, its too boring for me too watch.

hockeycop · 02-15-2010, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTown

The canadian women have been playing Midget AAA boys for alot longer than this year, trust me I know from experience.

True, I was trying to draw an outline of just one year. This year it counts for points for the boys though, and I think it's the first year that's ever been done.

ricoFlame · 02-15-2010, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

it really shouldn't even be an Olympic event when only 3 countries have a chance at medaling. if in a few years time the competitiveness can be brought up then re-institute it, but there's no point in having it included right now

exactly right. women's hockey most definitely does not offer the enough viable challengers for the gold medal.