Hybrid Misconception

[Mad Mel]

Originally Posted by Azure

If I would buy another SUV it would be a hybrid.

Personally, I'm considering a Volkswagen Tourag TDI next time around. 25mpg highway for a 220HP SUV is pretty damned fine. High-efficiency diesels are fantastic - people who immediately dismiss diesel engines usually don't know much about modern diesel technology.

[You Need a Thneed]

I'm looking forward to the day when someone puts out a diesel hybrid that gets at least 100 MPG. It's well within the capabilities of current technology. It wouldn't even have to be a tiny car. It just needs to have an engine that isn't overpowered for normal commuter driving. Something like 40-50 HP assisted by a 50 HP electric motor should be plenty.

[Hammertime]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Are you suggesting that hybrids are NOT better for the environment, or that far more is required to protect the environment? If it is the latter, then I would agree..... and I suppose you yourself are doing far more to protect the environment than the typical hybrid driver?

No, the first.

From a macro scale, Hybrid adoption lowers our rate of consumption of fossil fuels. We will still burn through the same amount of fuel (since it is a finite resource), except that instead of maybe doing it in 30 years, it will be burnt in 32 years (for example).

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Mad Mel

Personally, I'm considering a Volkswagen Tourag TDI next time around. 25mpg highway for a 220HP SUV is pretty damned fine. High-efficiency diesels are fantastic - people who immediately dismiss diesel engines usually don't know much about modern diesel technology.

My problem is that we don't have any dealers here in town outside of Ford and GM.

[Jake]

The "if you own a hybrid you must be a tree hugger" mentality of some people confuses me. I find it similar to the "if you own a flashy car you must only want to impress other people" attitude. Ironically, these stereotypes are often held by people on opposite sides of the debate (in other words: Ferrari owner looks at Prius owner as a tree hugger, Prius owner thinks Ferrari owner is trying to compensate for small penis).

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Hammertime

We will still burn through the same amount of fuel (since it is a finite resource)

Well, that's rather defeatist to assume we are going to burn every drop of fossil fuels we find, converting every little bit to CO2 at some point in the future and we are only delaying the inevitable. And who knows. You are probably right.

But I'm still going pay a premium to have BullfrogPower, use public transportation rather than buy a car, keep the thermostat at 16 throughout the winter... and I don't care that you think it pointless. Even if it is, I still think it the responsible thing to do.

[Azure]

The problem is people in general aren't responsible.

Which is why we need to give them an incentive to use public transportation, use a power company that uses clean energy and doesn't keep the thermostat cranked up.

Really, all of them means nothing when we talk about transportation though. We could stop a LOT of pollution if we could make cars more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly.

I recall a study a while back that said that cars contribute more to greenhouse gases than the tar sands.

[Titan]

Originally Posted by Rathji

If I could come home every day and plug my car in TO MY NEIGHBORS HOUSE and never need to go to a gas station ...

All you need is some extension cords. If only there were some just laying around...hmmm?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Azure

I recall a study a while back that said that cars contribute more to greenhouse gases than the tar sands.

A better statement would be that all CO2 produced by the Tar Sands is a direct result of cars.

No Cars = No Oil Demand or at least demand that could be satisfied by convensional oil.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Are you suggesting that hybrids are NOT better for the environment, or that far more is required to protect the environment? If it is the latter, then I would agree..... and I suppose you yourself are doing far more to protect the environment than the typical hybrid driver?

I would suggest that Hybrids are not better for the enviroment for most people driving habits and car ownership habits. The extra money you spend on getting a Hybrid that most people don't keep their car long enough to recover would be better spent on Carbon offsets. For a few hundred bucks a year you can in theory offset all of your car emisiions.

All Hybrids are are very expensive Carbon Credits.

[Hammertime]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Well, that's rather defeatist to assume we are going to burn every drop of fossil fuels we find, converting every little bit to CO2 at some point in the future and we are only delaying the inevitable. And who knows. You are probably right.

But I'm still going pay a premium to have BullfrogPower, use public transportation rather than buy a car, keep the thermostat at 16 throughout the winter... and I don't care that you think it pointless. Even if it is, I still think it the responsible thing to do.

I'm not in disagreement with you.

I don't think it's pointless for the individual. I do my best to keep the thermostat low, try to make sure that my family is using the least amount of energy possible. The cost savings may eventually sway me to purchase a hybrid at some point in the future.

I simply have a problem with the car company's marketing that driving hybrids will "save the planet". On a planetary scale, all it does is lower the demand/price for fuel (a depleting, finite resource), making it cheaper for other industries and developing countries to burn until there is none left.

If 10 people in North America driving hybrids lowers the price of gas enough for a few people to afford regular cars in China.. aren't we net equal as a planet? The only winners here are the car companies.

[Big Pom]

Originally Posted by GGG

I would suggest that Hybrids are not better for the enviroment for most people driving habits and car ownership habits. The extra money you spend on getting a Hybrid that most people don't keep their car long enough to recover would be better spent on Carbon offsets. For a few hundred bucks a year you can in theory offset all of your car emisiions.

All Hybrids are are very expensive Carbon Credits.

I've heard that the hybrid system dosn't run when you're going at highway speeds and at 110km/h the car is running on only the gas engine. I've also heard that the gas engine will be running when you turn the heater on because it draws too much energy. Living west of the city and driving in every day, it seems like a hybrid would not be a good choice for me because it'll only run the gas motor anyway. I know in a place like victoria where you live in the city and it rarely gets below 0'C it would be more practical but in my instance I chose to go with a Honda Civic that gets 50mpg.

Any thoughts?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Big Pom

I've heard that the hybrid system dosn't run when you're going at highway speeds and at 110km/h the car is running on only the gas engine. I've also heard that the gas engine will be running when you turn the heater on because it draws too much energy. Living west of the city and driving in every day, it seems like a hybrid would not be a good choice for me because it'll only run the gas motor anyway. I know in a place like victoria where you live in the city and it rarely gets below 0'C it would be more practical but in my instance I chose to go with a Honda Civic that gets 50mpg.

Any thoughts?

A Prius still does VERY well on the highway, and the engine will almost constantly run when it's cold, and the heater is on, yes. That being said, because the engine is smaller to begin with then any other car, you're still ahead of a different vehicle.

If most of your driving is highway driving, though, a VW TDI (or similar vehicle) will save you a lot of money over a Prius.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by GGG

I would suggest that Hybrids are not better for the enviroment for most people driving habits and car ownership habits. The extra money you spend on getting a Hybrid that most people don't keep their car long enough to recover would be better spent on Carbon offsets. For a few hundred bucks a year you can in theory offset all of your car emisiions.

All Hybrids are are very expensive Carbon Credits.

Carbon offsets or credits are the biggest bunch of BS since the Nigerian money email. All they are is something that makes some rich person feel better for their continued bad habits. At least someone driving a hybrid in the city is contributing to better air quality.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

Yup. Diesels suck. You must be a REAL car guy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R10_TDI

Your right, I am going to drive a LeMans car to work. woohoo

Honestly, why not just buy a proper petrol engine, considering I am not driving a Endurance race to school.

diga diga diga

And why the hell would I buy a A4 TDI and not the FSI 3.2?

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Azure

The problem is people in general aren't responsible.

Which is why we need to give them an incentive to use public transportation, use a power company that uses clean energy and doesn't keep the thermostat cranked up.

Really, all of them means nothing when we talk about transportation though. We could stop a LOT of pollution if we could make cars more fuel efficient and environmentally friendly.

I recall a study a while back that said that cars contribute more to greenhouse gases than the tar sands.

I thought you said you're going to buy an SUV?

Don't get me wrong, you and Mad Mel should go ahead and buy a Touareg or Q7, it will increse the GDP of my home and native land , but unless you are living in the middle of wilderness SUVs and 4x4 offroads are nothing but big shiny ego boosters and hardly a responsible choice.

[twotoner]

My hybrid MTB bike costs me 5 cents a charge, zero to park, zero to insure and it beats every car and bus durring rush hour.

Bateries, controller and hub motor added 2k to the cost of a six hundred dollar commuter bike. I can even pedal to get some exercise if i want. And yes, I am riding it to work today.

[twotoner]

Current generation hybryds may be more expensive, but true electric vehicles will hands down beat an ice vehicle. No gas, no oil changes, no motor, no tranny or exhaust. ther isn't much else to maintain when these systems are gone, even the breaks don't wear out nearly as fast as a regular car does. the batteries don't fail completely, they just slowly fade and the new ones like a123 systems last for thousands of cycles before this starts to happen.

This year, the chevy volt is a pure electric the first 40miles, then a lawnmower engine takes over to power a generator for the batteries. Nissan's scion(I may have the name wrong?) goes about 170km and it is all electric. Who here commutes more than 40 miles a day?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by twotoner

My hybrid MTB bike costs me 5 cents a charge, goes fifty km/hr, zero to park, zero to insure and it beats every car and bus durring rush hour.

Bateries, controller and hub motor added 2k to the cost of a six hundred dollar commuter bike. I can even pedal to get some exercise if i want. And yes, I am riding it to work today.

What kind of bike is this?

And not to derail the thread, but you have a $2600 bike with no insurance on it? or is that kinda thing covered by home owners insurance if it gets stolen?

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Big Pom

I've heard that the hybrid system dosn't run when you're going at highway speeds and at 110km/h the car is running on only the gas engine. I've also heard that the gas engine will be running when you turn the heater on because it draws too much energy. Living west of the city and driving in every day, it seems like a hybrid would not be a good choice for me because it'll only run the gas motor anyway. I know in a place like victoria where you live in the city and it rarely gets below 0'C it would be more practical but in my instance I chose to go with a Honda Civic that gets 50mpg.

Any thoughts?

That's how the Prius technology works, but the previous version of the Honda Insight always used the gas motor (maybe the current version does too, but I'm not familiar with it). The better mileage isn't due to the electric; it's due to the car only having a 3 cylinder engine. The electric only acts to boost your car when you're trying to accelerate or go up a hill, since the 3 cylinder engine would make doing those things a challenge. If you're getting 50 mpg in a Civic, then it's probably not worth switching to an Insight, but I consistently get 60-65mpg on the highway with mine.