A/Vhpiles- Surge Protection - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

01-18-2010, 03:45 PM

So I picked up a new home theater system. Not a box system but a system based on reviews for receivers, speakers, etc.

When I went to buy all the items, the sales guy tried to get me to buy one of those 'power centers'. The one he showed me was a Monster one. I think it retailed for around $300.

He demonstrated how it 'filtered' out interference from all your devices and provided clean sound and picture. In his demonstration, I could here interference, but I would suggest that the sound I heard is amplified for the demonstration as I have never heard that before on my current system without a power center.

Is this something I really need? Will I be able to tell the difference?

Here's the power center he tried to sell me (it wasn't at futureshop and this item was only $300 at the place i was at.):
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...0120278&catid=

Komskies · 01-18-2010, 03:57 PM

This guy was trying to scam you into buying a totally unnecessary, massively overpriced piece of garbage.

Just get a good power bar with a built-in surge protector. You should spend at most $50.

Kipper is King · 01-18-2010, 04:02 PM

Monster Cable is synonymous for overpriced crap. You most certainly do not need what he was trying to sell you.

Russic · 01-18-2010, 04:08 PM

It's a personal rule of mine to ignore anything after the very mention of Monster. Sounds like somebody is trying to make a commission.

01-18-2010, 04:23 PM

I was only using Monster as an example. I would never buy Monster anything. I was more interested in the technology behind these power centers.

sclitheroe · 01-18-2010, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Komskies

Just get a good power bar with a built-in surge protector. You should spend at most $50.

Incorrect. Power bars use MOV's for surge protection, which are a sacrificial component that will fail over time either due to successive small surges, or one big one. When MOV's fail, they typically do so silently - the power bar will continue to work, but without the benefit of surge suppression.

You want either a small UPS (APC makes some affordable units, including small ones that basically look like oversize power bars), or something with non-sacrificial components. I have a pair of ZeroSurge surge suppressors that are working great, and have been for years. Check them out here: www.zerosurge.com

GoinAllTheWay · 01-18-2010, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

When MOV's fail, they typically do so silently - the power bar will continue to work, but without the benefit of surge suppression.

Seriously? That's insane, I had no idea. I figured when the surge protection element was gone, the power bar would no longer function.

VERY good to know.

Bill Bumface · 01-18-2010, 05:05 PM

^ Often there is a light to indicate they are toast. A light you will never see because it's buried under a desk/cabinet. We've had several $10K+ devices toasted by power surges hooked up to normal power bars here at the office.

BlackArcher101 · 01-18-2010, 07:04 PM

Better yet, take that money and put it into a surge protector for your entire household. Imagine... no more worries about power bars and which items get the honor of being plugged in and which don't. If really anal, get seperate surge protection for your sensitive items (pc, receiver, tv).

http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/np_produ...484609,00.html

Shazam · 01-18-2010, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Better yet, take that money and put it into a surge protector for your entire household. Imagine... no more worries about power bars and which items get the honor of being plugged in and which don't. If really anal, get seperate surge protection for your sensitive items (pc, receiver, tv).

http://www.hgtvpro.com/hpro/np_produ...484609,00.html

Yeah I had one of those at the old house. It's still recommended to get surge protection for more delicate equipment.

Komskies · 01-19-2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

Incorrect. Power bars use MOV's for surge protection, which are a sacrificial component that will fail over time either due to successive small surges, or one big one. When MOV's fail, they typically do so silently - the power bar will continue to work, but without the benefit of surge suppression.

You want either a small UPS (APC makes some affordable units, including small ones that basically look like oversize power bars), or something with non-sacrificial components. I have a pair of ZeroSurge surge suppressors that are working great, and have been for years. Check them out here: www.zerosurge.com

Good to know. Thanks. I still stand by my comments to never buy anything Monster brand though.

Jawbone Hill · 01-19-2010, 12:55 PM

I bought an APC power filter/conditioner from tigerdirect about a year ago, and it works great. They aren't overpriced like Monster products. I also trust APC, due to their experience with UPSs. Tigerdirect also does a great job of selling last year's models at drastically reduced prices. They don't have the one I picked up any more, but I found this one with a quick search.

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...1002&srkey=apc

Edit: I just checked out the APC website, and this is only a power filter. The model I got was a power conditioner, which (from my understanding) also regulates the voltage so that your components get a steady stream of power. Still, something like this should give you a lot more protection than your standard surge protector.

GoinAllTheWay · 01-19-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hulkrogan

^ Often there is a light to indicate they are toast. A light you will never see because it's buried under a desk/cabinet. We've had several $10K+ devices toasted by power surges hooked up to normal power bars here at the office.

Taking a look at a couple of the power bars I have at home, they only seem to have the main "on" light. I'm assuming if that light starts to flicker I should probably replace it?

sclitheroe · 01-19-2010, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoinAllTheWay

Taking a look at a couple of the power bars I have at home, they only seem to have the main "on" light. I'm assuming if that light starts to flicker I should probably replace it?

The light doesn't mean anything one way or the other. If its flickering its because it's a 120v neon bulb that is burning out. It's not diagnostic of anything.

Bill Bumface · 01-20-2010, 12:02 PM

I've encountered a decent amount, even the cheaper ones, that have indicator lights like below that go with the sacrificial components:

sclitheroe · 01-20-2010, 06:33 PM

Except that those "protected" lights don't neccessarily mean anything other than they put a light on there that says "protected"....see here: http://www.zerosurge.com/truthaboutmovs.cfm?PType=Res

The "protected" light also doesn't tell you anything about the remaining surge capacity or integrity of the MOV's, even if it is accurate. Obviously, the website above has only one side of the story to tell, but the point is that their design is superior to cheap MOV based surge protectors (as are UPS's, etc)

But I mean it's up to each individual obviously - if you feel that the "protected" light on a $40 surge protector is good enough, then it's good enough I guess.

To be honest, modern electronics need good enough power that their power supplies are pretty beefy and do a lot of filtration themselves, and our power is pretty good - I don't know how many household electronics in Alberta succumb to surges in metropolitan areas. It can't be that frequent an occurence anyways.

Vulcan · 01-20-2010, 07:50 PM

Besides electrical surges, lightening can cause problems. I got hit and it blew out my Shaw internet, my router and the internet connection on my motherboard. I complained to Shaw and they said tough, that's too bad but they did replace the modem. Telus phone also went out but they had a fuse that blew and protected my phones. So be sure to get a surge protector or UPS, that also takes the co-ax cable from Shaw and maybe the internet ( can't think of it's name right now) cable also.

01-20-2010, 08:59 PM

So is a 'power conditioner' as a device a complete myth? Do they even work?

As far as the UPS surge protectors, are these what I am looking for:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...let_650VA.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...let_550VA.html

McG · 01-20-2010, 09:40 PM

this thread is very timely. i have been looking at the apc ups at costco. i need to do more research but the ability to have some extra time to shut the server and the gear down or step in for a short term power hit really appeals to me. absolutely the surge and spike protection is a huge thing too.

anyways, i personally need to do more research so thanks to all for posting the links.

Vulcan · 01-20-2010, 09:52 PM

For a home theatre system, I don't think you need a UPS, that's more for a computer I think as it will give you time to shut down the computer safely.

For a home theatre system maybe something like this will be fine. It has some good reviews, it's on sale cheap and probably does what Monster does although I've never used this.

http://ncix.com/products/index.php?s...S&promoid=1084