Blue Jays offseason

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

The Pirates are super cheap. I have no idea what's they're doing. Last year they traded ALL NINE of their opening day starters.

The Jays are very rich. They just need to blow it up and start again now but they have the capacity to sign big contracts to keep their players, the right players.

How about Baltimore than, a team who can spend more than the Jays. They have been poor for about 10 years. Although in the last 2 or so they're maybe showing a bit more of a plan. Rebuilding a Baseball organization is a long task in the best of situations, and if you miss that first run thru, it can mean years on the outside. Hopefully AA has a bit of good fortune and it's a shorter project. Still it's probably 2-3 years until the Jays are a team that's anything close to relevent again.

[Caged Great]

Here's the contracts for the position players. I don't think any of our pitchers are making more than 2 million right now.

C - John Buck - 2 million
1B - Lyle Overbay - 7.95 million (likely to be traded)
2B - Aaron Hill - 2.59 million
SS - Alex Gonzalez - 2.75 million
3B - Edwin Encarnacion - 2.425 million
OF - Travis Snyder - > 1 million
OF - Adam Lind - > 1 million
OF - Vernon Wells - 21 million

Backups

SS - John MacDonald - 1.5 million
Util - Jose Bautista - 2.4 million
C - Raul Chavez - Minor league contract
OF - Joey Gathright - Minor league contract

[bluejays]

Holy crow, Encarnacion sticks out like a sore thumb in that lineup. As for Overbay, I wonder what they could get for the guy. From the sounds of it a few weeks back, Overbay could get a decent return. I forgot what a rumor deal was, but it wasn't a bag of balls. If AA is gonna deal him, hopefully it's done this year. Build now from scratch. No half assing it like JP.

[Gozer]

The entire Halladay trade was handled with an embarrassing lack of tact. The return on the trade aside, if a team is going to trade a guy as appreciated by the fanbase as Doc then this was the worst way to handle it. No support for three years, then hung out to dry for a final season with an embarrassing roster, PR stunt manager, and a figurehead GM that openly welcomed offers for him.

And didn't Alex Ant say that the Jays aren't rebuilding? With this trade (zero major leaguers) that's already a joke. I'm not against the move, I'm just against the "tell the fan whatever we think they want to hear" approach this entire organization has had for years.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by Gozer

The entire Halladay trade was handled with an embarrassing lack of tact. The return on the trade aside, if a team is going to trade a guy as appreciated by the fanbase as Doc then this was the worst way to handle it. No support for three years, then hung out to dry for a final season with an embarrassing roster, PR stunt manager, and a figurehead GM that openly welcomed offers for him.

And didn't Alex Ant say that the Jays aren't rebuilding? With this trade (zero major leaguers) that's already a joke. I'm not against the move, I'm just against the "tell the fan whatever we think they want to hear" approach this entire organization has had for years.

beeston said they wern't "rebuliding" rather they're "building".

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Gozer

The entire Halladay trade was handled with an embarrassing lack of tact. The return on the trade aside, if a team is going to trade a guy as appreciated by the fanbase as Doc then this was the worst way to handle it. No support for three years, then hung out to dry for a final season with an embarrassing roster, PR stunt manager, and a figurehead GM that openly welcomed offers for him.

And didn't Alex Ant say that the Jays aren't rebuilding? With this trade (zero major leaguers) that's already a joke. I'm not against the move, I'm just against the "tell the fan whatever we think they want to hear" approach this entire organization has had for years.

Wow, I see it in a totally different way.... Beeston and AA handled this trade very professionally in all accounts. AA has shown he has a plan and is working towards it.

Halladay clearly wanted to be moved to allow him an opportunity to win a championship. Jays honoured the request.

As for the trade, I really like the deal for the Jays. This is exactly what they should have done. Grab high end prospects.

Alex & Besston said its not a re-build but a build... ie rebuild means to rip it 100% apart. Jays have good core players to build around (Hill, Lind, Snider, Cecil Romeo etc,..) that's why they call it a "build"...

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by flambers

Wow, I see it in a totally different way.... Beeston and AA handled this trade very professionally in all accounts. AA has shown he has a plan and is working towards it.

If you start evaluating the trade at that point, sure, maybe. They did a fine job of getting some nice prospects (but not the Phillies best prospect) and burning $6M in the process. Not a terrible deal, per se, because I've been crowing on CP for over a year that any deal is un-winnable unless Wells goes too.

But you're evaluating the trade starting at some point a few weeks ago. This all started when the Jays were in first place in MLB and looked like they could be a move or two away from contention. At that time Doc was adamantly a Jay.
Doc never wanted out until JP said he was on the block, Kevin Millar was playing third base, and the team was unloading professionals like Rolen who didn't like what a poop-show this team is (was, if you prefer). Inaction led to frustration which led to a fire-sale.

I bet Sutter could've traded Iginla for a better return than the Jays got - but debating what the return could have or should have been is missing the point.

Doc wanted out in the same sense a boyfriend wants to break up with a girlfriend who shows no affection and is openly looking for someone else but doesn't want to end things yet. He wants out, but it's tough to fault him.



The Jays drove Doc into being desperate to get out. Where does that leave fans like me?

Cheering for the Phillies I suppose.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Doc wanted out in the same sense a boyfriend wants to break up with a girlfriend who shows no affection and is openly looking for someone else but doesn't want to end things yet. He wants out, but it's tough to fault him.


The Jays drove Doc into being desperate to get out. Where does that leave fans like me?

Cheering for the Phillies I suppose.

True enough, but can you tell me what else AA should have done? I think he made the best of a bad situation.

I'm a little choked as you are, that the best pitcher in MLB can only fetch that kind of return, but those are the breaks. Could he have gotten more? It is tough to tell. He is a rookie GM and other teams were hunting for blood.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Not a terrible deal, per se, because I've been crowing on CP for over a year that any deal is un-winnable unless Wells goes too.

I think Wells is completely untradeable. No GM in their right mind is going to touch that contract.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I think Wells is completely untradeable. No GM in their right mind is going to touch that contract.

Even if Vernon does return to his numbers before the contract, he's still not worth trading. Very dumb contract. Probably won't be a good team again until after that one is done.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I think Wells is completely untradeable. No GM in their right mind is going to touch that contract.

Totally agree, not sure why Wells would even be mentioned in a Halladay trade.

[Sylvanfan]

The Wells contract is pretty much a franchise killer. If the Jays don't have the money committed to him that they did, they probably still could have been leading the AL in June and than maybe decide to go after a guy like Victor Martinez. Instead they have no money and eventually end up getting rid of most of their veteran players.

Granted in the AL East the guys they had probably aren't good enough over the long term to compete with the Yankees or Red Sox, but the optics do suggest Rogers intent all along was to wait for the team to go in the tank and get rid of as much salar as they possibly could. Fine if they had made that call two years ago before they handed over all that money to Wells. Now they pretty much have to wait another 6 years for that albatross to clear off the books. Of course a lot of people who hate that contract now, didn't hate it so much at the time. I still don't know what happened there if old man Ted stepped up and said he had to sign him or what. I remember the Jays had a marketing campaign in place without Wells and than they had him on an extension a week later.

[calculoso]

League + ? to Seattle for RP Brandon Morrow
(Ticker on Sportsnet)

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by calculoso

League + ? to Seattle for RP Brandon Morrow
(Ticker on Sportsnet)

Yup, looks like a done deal pending physicals. Not a League fan myself so I like this deal. Morrow seems solid and has equal potential.

http://toronto.bluejays.mlb.com/news...=.jsp&c_id=tor

[Sylvanfan]

Yeah, they have it up on MLB.com too. League had good stuff, but zero consistency. He'd strike out 5 of 6 hitters once appearance and than fail to get an out the next time. With Morrow having some starting experience he might be able to battle for a spot in the Jays rotation.

[Machiavelli]

Brandon mother ****ing League!

[habernac]

Doc says good bye to Toronto

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/M...38016-qmi.html

[flambers]

Originally Posted by calculoso

League + ? to Seattle for RP Brandon Morrow
(Ticker on Sportsnet)

Another deal, I really like. AA has landed a high end prospect with lots of potential.


Edit, now the MLB bloggers are speculating the prospect going to Seattle is Zach Stewart

[Jason14h]

One has to wonder if this wasn't a part of the Halliday trade as welll, perhaps Seattle needed to look at the Jays prospects and didn't want to risk holding up the bigger part of the trade

If not Seattle just got taken in a huge way......

[tigger777]

What a classy guy!!!! Hope you win a championship with the Phillies.
Roy's ad from the paper is here: http://twitpic.com/unk6p

Originally Posted by habernac

Doc says good bye to Toronto

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/M...38016-qmi.html