WAP closes gap on PC's in a big way...6% difference now

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Well, if by "no experience" you mean electing people with many years of political experience. Let's review:

Peter Lougheed: Was an MLA for six years before becoming premier. Had a political career that spanned two decades.
Don Getty: Had been an MLA for nearly two decades before being elected premier.
Ralph Klein: Was a longtime mayor of Calgary before being elected premier.
Ed Stelmach: MLA since 1993 before becoming premier in 2006.

That takes us back to the 1960s. Who, exactly, are these rookies? If anything, Albertans tend to prefer to stay the course and go with people who are seasoned politicians with tons of experience.

An interesting thing to note, that relates to that statement. Any party in the history of Alberta that has lost an election has never won one again.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Always found it strange how in a province where the vast majority of the population lives in 4-5 cities, it's the rural folks who seem to hold all the power.

Not really sure if Alberta needs more right-winger farmer style politics though....

Damn farmers.....forcing all their crazy right wing politics
onto the liberal cities.....What?.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

That takes us back to the 1960s. Who, exactly, are these rookies? If anything, Albertans tend to prefer to stay the course and go with people who are seasoned politicians with tons of experience.

I like that you deliberately stopped right after the timeframe that FireFly's argument was obviously pointing to.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Well, if by "no experience" you mean electing people with many years of political experience. Let's review:

Peter Lougheed: Was an MLA for six years before becoming premier. Had a political career that spanned two decades.
Don Getty: Had been an MLA for nearly two decades before being elected premier.
Ralph Klein: Was a longtime mayor of Calgary before being elected premier.
Ed Stelmach: MLA since 1993 before becoming premier in 2006.

That takes us back to the 1960s. Who, exactly, are these rookies? If anything, Albertans tend to prefer to stay the course and go with people who are seasoned politicians with tons of experience.

1921 the United Farmers have no seats and end up with 38 forming the government with no previous experience.

1935, Social Credit has no seats and ends up with 56; an overwhelming majority. The go on to rule until 1971.

1971 the Conservatives have 6 seats and wind up with 49 forming government with very little experience.

We do indeed have one MLA now. More than the United Farmers or Social Credit had.

So by No experience, I mean no experience. If you want to get relative, 6 MLAs does not a government form, nor even a cabinet for that matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eral_elections

[Resolute 14]

Not quite. UFA won a by-election in 1920.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by FireFly

1921 the United Farmers have no seats and end up with 38 forming the government with no previous experience.

1935, Social Credit has no seats and ends up with 56; an overwhelming majority. The go on to rule until 1971.

1971 the Conservatives have 6 seats and wind up with 49 forming government with very little experience.

We do indeed have one MLA now. More than the United Farmers or Social Credit had.

So by No experience, I mean no experience. If you want to get relative, 6 MLAs does not a government form, nor even a cabinet for that matter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...eral_elections

Using voter history from the early part of last century is pretty flimsy though. By that same train of thought Alberta has a long proud history of voting Liberal!

I think that the more telling point is that in almost every election voters keep the incumbents. Provincial voters act very similarly to civic voters in this regard where the incumbents have huge advantages and it takes a lot to unseat them.

btw that map above is old....I think its from two elections ago?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I like that you deliberately stopped right after the timeframe that FireFly's argument was obviously pointing to.

I see. In other words, the argument requires that we disregard the last 50 years of Alberta political history. Fair enoughsies.

In actuality, it seems that FF and I are working on slightly different definitions of experience, which is also fair enough. But I think you need to look past the raw numbers and to the experience of the people involved--otherwise this is an argument about ideology, not competence.

The tories may only have had 6 seats in 1971. But the personnel were considerably more experienced than what we've seen so far from WAP.

FWIW, I'm skeptical of the "experience makes you better" argument anyway. I'm merely commenting on what appears historically to have been the preference of Alberta voters. Nor am I claiming that Wild Rose won't win the election--in fact, if I were a betting man (and I guess I sort of am) I'd put money on them sustaining this anti-incumbency movement through 2012.

I was merely commenting on the notion that historically Albertans like to vote for rookies. It simply isn't true. Historically, Albertans like to vote for the guy they voted for last time. When they change their preference, they do it in a hurry, but they still haven't typically chosen complete rookies--unless you think Peter Lougheed was a "rookie." I don't.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Damn farmers.....forcing all their crazy right wing politics onto the liberal cities.....What?.

I think the argument is that there's one party Albertans will vote for, and the farmers have taken it over. The royalty issue alone pretty much shows that.

My argument, however, is that people in cities are either too dumb to know what their interests are or too apathetic to stand up for them.

This province desperately needs Single Transferable Vote.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

I see. In other words, the argument requires that we disregard the last 50 years of Alberta political history. Fair enoughsies.

Oh come now, IFF. We both know you are smarter than that. Nobody said anything about disregarding the last 50 years, but it remains convenient that you chose to disregard the first 50 years.

In actuality, it seems that FF and I are working on slightly different definitions of experience, which is also fair enough. But I think you need to look past the raw numbers and to the experience of the people involved--otherwise this is an argument about ideology, not competence.

As you allude to later, experience and competence are not synonyms. Ed Stelmach and Rob Anders are experienced politicians. How many here do you think would consider either of them competent?

I was merely commenting on the notion that historically Albertans like to vote for rookies. It simply isn't true. Historically, Albertans like to vote for the guy they voted for last time. When they change their preference, they do it in a hurry, but they still haven't typically chosen complete rookies--unless you think Peter Lougheed was a "rookie." I don't.

In the end, I think you are both right, just arguing from different angles. Alberta is a province ruled by dynasties, but when it decides to change, it changes in a big hurry, and it doesn't much care how much political experience the MLAs it elects have.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by SebC

My argument, however, is that people in cities are either too dumb to know what their interests are or too apathetic to stand up for them.

Because it is impossible that the PCs, historically, better represented the views of both urban and rural Albertans than the alternatives?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Oh come now, IFF. We both know you are smarter than that. Nobody said anything about disregarding the last 50 years, but it remains convenient that you chose to disregard the first 50 years.



As you allude to later, experience and competence are not synonyms. Ed Stelmach and Rob Anders are experienced politicians. How many here do you think would consider either of them competent?



In the end, I think you are both right, just arguing from different angles. Alberta is a province ruled by dynasties, but when it decides to change, it changes in a big hurry, and it doesn't much care how much political experience the MLAs it elects have.

Alberta has been ruled by dynasties and has decided to change in a hurry in the past. That doesn't necesarily mean that this will continue in the future though. The supporters of the WRA seem to think that because this happened in 1971 (before many of us on this board were even born!) that this is going to happen this time as well. In reality though there is no reason at all the WRA couldn't win 6-12 seats and then two elections from now dwindle down to none.

[Resolute 14]

You are just as guilty of assuming what you want to see as you accuse others of being, Slava. Go back through my posts - I've made it clear all along that the WRA is going to have to prove itself over the next couple years. I'm assuming nothing here.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Slava

Alberta has been ruled by dynasties and has decided to change in a hurry in the past. That doesn't necesarily mean that this will continue in the future though. The supporters of the WRA seem to think that because this happened in 1971 (before many of us on this board were even born!) that this is going to happen this time as well. In reality though there is no reason at all the WRA couldn't win 6-12 seats and then two elections from now dwindle down to none.

I'm fairly certain we don't believe we have anything in the bag here. We have two year and a LOT of work to do. This poll is a snapshot in time and support will continue to fluctuate between now and the next election. We need to do everything we can to ensure that those who are nominated as candidates are competent and qualified. I brought up the poll as a discussion point. Its flattering, but we don't even have candidates yet! That just goes to show how much work we have to do to earn and keep the people's trust!

[troutman]

Are people really excited about a party whose second best candidate is Dyrholm?

[The Goon]

More so than candidates, is there a WRA policy book anywhere? They seem all cool and sexy, but I have no idea what the party stands for.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by troutman

Are people really excited about a party whose second best candidate is Dyrholm?

Speaking for myself - I am desperate to see the Tories/Stelmach trounced, and, since I will never vote for LP or NDP, I am now a card-carrying member of the WRA.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by troutman

Are people really excited about a party whose second best candidate is Dyrholm?

Who says he is their second best candidate? He lost the leadership race very badly, which argues that the membership overwhelmingly rejected his POVs. Given the party's massive growth in membership between the time the leadership race was announced, and today, I think it is safe to say Dyrholm is even further marginalized.

Goon - I'm sure FireFly will add more once she gets back online, but I believe the party is currently working to flesh out its policy. One of those drawbacks to being new, and something they will need to do well if they hope to sustain support.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by The Goon

More so than candidates, is there a WRA policy book anywhere? They seem all cool and sexy, but I have no idea what the party stands for.

http://wildrosealliance.ca/our-policies

Resolute is right, we are fleshing out more policy... This is what our task forces are for; to get to specifics. There will be more of these in the future.

In addition, any 5 members can propose a policy we would go over at our AGM. If the policy relates to one of the task forces, it should go through that task force.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by FireFly

No we have not, and I'll tell you why.

We want to ensure that our Constituency Associations are active and effective so that we can get the best possible candidates in each riding, and ensure that they have a strong support system. We don't want to just put in whoever is willing; we need to prepare for the possibility that some of these people will become cabinet members.

We have approximately half of our CAs running now, the rest will be done in the new year.

Thank you to those who have joined and donated! We've got a long way to go still and we need and appreciate your help!

Nice to see your name on the letter with my membership card!

[Rathji]

I am a card carrying PC member. What does the WRA offer me other than a change in Premier? How is it different? Is anything essentially the same? How can my lazy butt get a membership without driving to some office in -20 weather?