My Friend Is a Teacher, And The Boss Sucks! Advice?

[bcb]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

Hey everyone, thanks for the advice. Seems my teacher friend will have to stick it out this year, but the thread gave him some resources to pursue.

As for the rest of the thread - derail away.

Is that the cue to bring out some Ann Coulter quotes on teachers?

[EDBTZ12]

What if the teacher sucks? And the boss is just doing their job?

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by bcb

Is that the cue to bring out some Ann Coulter quotes on teachers?

Oh god, I can only imagine. Lemme guess, something about liberal indoctrination, should be non bias state employees like mailmen or something of that ilk?

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

I was curious what the contribution rates were for teachers in Alberta.

http://www.teachers.ab.ca/Salary%20a...ributions.aspx

Also curious for other Alberta government workers:

http://www.pspp.ca/code/rate-increas.../news-item.htm


You can use the calculators on each site to see how the pensions compare:

http://www.atrf.com/calculators/calcpen_proc.asp

http://www.pspp.ca/calc-pen-disc.html

Enter the same values for each. Youll see the teachers pension payments are higher. Then compare how much lower the teachers contributions are.

thanks for this information.
I am enlightened!

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by Rifleman

Hey everyone, thanks for the advice. Seems my teacher friend will have to stick it out this year, but the thread gave him some resources to pursue.

As for the rest of the thread - derail away.

I wish your friend good luck and continued success! Hopefully all turns out well.

[SinceDay1]

Originally Posted by Sliver

As pointed out by another poster, for better or worse, overtime is expected in our society and largely uncompensated; however, I very much doubt that, on average, teachers put in 2.5 months of overtime in the 9 months a year they work.

Well, let's do some math. Using the CBE's school calendar supplied by another poster, I counted 197 work days. I'm going to use a conservative estimate of 1 hour per day of unpaid overtime, however, anecdotal evidence supplied by other posters suggest this is lowballing. At straight time that comes out to 197 hours of overtime or 26 days assuming a typical 7.5 hour workday. That's 5 weeks. If we multiply that 197 hours by a typical overtime rate of 1.5, we now come up with 295.5 hours of OT. That's 39.4 days or just under 8 weeks. So much for summer vacation.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sample00

just as a side note, since this thread has derailed so much anyways...

my wife, gets a week or so off at Christmas. typically she doesnt have marking to do at this time because she feels that Christmas is a strong family time and she doesnt assign her kids homework that needs to be done right before Christmas. She also doesnt assign homework during the holidays. She does however spend some of this time planning for the next semester.
Spring break is another story. Typically she will get 3 or 4 days off at this time, because she is typically marking or working on projects.
Summer - my wife is out of the school by usually July 10th and returns on August 15th to prep for the coming year.
I dont see 3 months off anywhere in that year.

Ok, I used to teach, and while I agree that many of those attacking the profession in this thread, know not of which they speak, I also think some of your comments here are not the case with the majority of teachers either.

Now I think you mentioned your wife is an assistant principal? I was not so perhaps that would explain the comment I hi-lighted in red.

But I would wager for the vast majority of teachers, you won't see them in school past June 30 at the very latest. And for the vast majority, you won't see them back in the classroom in fall until perhaps 3 to 5 days before the school year begins. Some might be doing extra prep work at home but I never experienced any actually going back in the school by August 15.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by redforever

Ok, I used to teach, and while I agree that many of those attacking the profession in this thread, know not of which they speak, I also think some of your comments here are not the case with the majority of teachers either.

Now I think you mentioned your wife is an assistant principal? I was not so perhaps that would explain the comment I hi-lighted in red.

But I would wager for the vast majority of teachers, you won't see them in school past June 30 at the very latest. And for the vast majority, you won't see them back in the classroom in fall until perhaps 3 to 5 days before the school year begins. Some might be doing extra prep work at home but I never experienced any actually going back in the school by August 15.

I am telling you what my wife's experience is and that of many of our friends.
some do leave at the end of june, some stay to finish things up.
as for starting early, some do, some dont. some do the prep from home or on a beach or at a campsite.
My biggest point was, is that teachers dont get three months off a year as was eluded to. I use to think they did when I was in high school,
but I have come to learn that that is not the case.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sample00

I am telling you what my wife's experience is and that of many of our friends.
some do leave at the end of june, some stay to finish things up.
as for starting early, some do, some dont. some do the prep from home or on a beach or at a campsite.
My biggest point was, is that teachers dont get three months off a year as was eluded to. I use to think they did when I was in high school,
but I have come to learn that that is not the case.

With the exception of one year, when I knew I was changing classrooms the next school year, I had nothing to finish up past June 30. Perhaps you could mention some of the things your wife does until July 10?

All kids have been graded, there is no more marking or correcting, there is no more teaching, lesson plans are done for the year, my job was done by June 30.

Now as you say, you are talking of your wife's experience, and perhaps those in administration have more to finish up.

From my experience, as a teacher only in the classroom, not in administration, I was finished by June 30.

[Kybosh]

It seems to me that a lot of the pro-teacher arguments involve people who clearly go above and beyond what is actually required of them. I'm sure they are great teachers because of this but. . .just because they do these things does not mean that all teachers are required to. For example, buying classroom tools out of your own pocket is not required. Like everyone else in this thread (haha) I have a bunch of CBE teacher friends and it seems like there is a new trend to not spend any of your own money for your classroom. The ultimate goal is for the financial plans to be restructured so that they won't rely on teachers to use their own money.

As for how much teachers work after hours, I do know that in addition to regular class time they are also required to put in extra curricular efforts such as being a football coach or something. The lesson planning/marking is also mostly done after hours but the more experienced you are the easier those duties become. Teachers work hard but I would say they don't work any harder than than any other career I know of. In this day and age, everyone I know puts in extra hours at night or on the weekends. Tis life.

As for the vacation time, yes, teachers get more than any other profession I've ever heard of. All of my friends never do any work over the summer and a lot of them proceed to take 6 to 8 week vacations abroad. They go back to work about 5-7 days before the school year begins from what I've seen. One thing a lot of people are considering though is the exchange of salary for the time off? Would you rather have the time off from work for a reduced salary or work more from increased pay? Tough question in my opinion.

All in all, I appreciate the social service that teachers do but I'm kind of sick of all my teacher buddies bragging to me about how much time they get off . . . dinks . If you want to talk about a crappy teaching gig lets talk about being a sessional instructor at a university haha.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by albertGQ

Not all professions are paid for their overtime. Lots of salaried workers stay past their "scheduled shifts" on a consistent basis

Just playing devil's advocate here, but everyone seems to rebutt Sliver's comments about the OT and vacation, but not one has mentioned their pension either

Is it a gold plated one that the media portrays it as? I'm curious to know

I side with teachers but the Ontario Teachers Pension Plan is pretty gold-plated.

The thing is funded by alcohol, gambling, tobacco, sports, oil companies, etc. Nothing wrong with having a good pension.

[yads]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

The vast majority of 7-11 workers maybe. Most professions and businesses have some sort of retirement plan ei options and what not. Do you not realize that the TEACHERS pay into their pension fund and it is managed quite well. It is not just FREE money.

What? The majority of businesses do not offer retirement plans.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by redforever

Perhaps you could mention some of the things your wife does until July 10?

As previously mentioned, we are in a small community.
and yes, a lot of the stuff my wife does is administrative.
however, teachers here will finish documenting Cumulative files, to pass on to the next teacher. Its a system that covers off where students levels of testing are at (my wife would explain it better)
they will clean classrooms, pack up old material, take down stuff, get them ready for painting, if necessary.
if they are getting a new teaching assignment or different courses to teach, some will start their planning then. Some will gather new materials in order to assist them in teaching the new programs.
as for my wife, she is also an AISI Lead teacher. A teacher who teaches teachers how to teach. There is follow up to do with that at year end. Analyzing data, preparing reports to her central office and Alberta Education.
She has to accept and work on incoming student files, go through their Cumulative files to see where students need to be placed.
she has to get the files ready for students that are leaving the building. Students that are going to the high school and students that are leaving the community.
thats just some of the stuff that I can think of, off the top of my head. I am sure she could add other information.

[Locke]

Wow, CP is pretty touchy about its teachers, isnt it usually the teachers who are touchy?

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Locke

Wow, CP is pretty touchy about its teachers, isnt it usually the teachers who are touchy?

No, it is the priests who are touchy.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

No, it is the priests who are touchy.

coffee spewed on monitor...thanks so much.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Sample00

As previously mentioned, we are in a small community.
and yes, a lot of the stuff my wife does is administrative.
however, teachers here will finish documenting Cumulative files, to pass on to the next teacher. Its a system that covers off where students levels of testing are at (my wife would explain it better)
they will clean classrooms, pack up old material, take down stuff, get them ready for painting, if necessary.
if they are getting a new teaching assignment or different courses to teach, some will start their planning then. Some will gather new materials in order to assist them in teaching the new programs.
as for my wife, she is also an AISI Lead teacher. A teacher who teaches teachers how to teach. There is follow up to do with that at year end. Analyzing data, preparing reports to her central office and Alberta Education.
She has to accept and work on incoming student files, go through their Cumulative files to see where students need to be placed.
she has to get the files ready for students that are leaving the building. Students that are going to the high school and students that are leaving the community.
thats just some of the stuff that I can think of, off the top of my head. I am sure she could add other information.

See, a lot of that is administrative, and does not apply to the average classroom teacher. And that is no different than any CEO in any other profession. Those that have risen to higher pecking order usually have higher placements put upon them. That however, does not apply to all the workers in the company.

When I taught, cumulative files, student assessments, particularily and especially for those students going on to highschool (I mainly taught Junior High Math and Science) were normally done by June 30.

As I mentioned, I did have some work past June 30 one year, when I knew I was getting a different classroom, but that is not usually the case every year, particularily in a Junior High setting. When I taught, students were usually released 2 or 3 days prior to the time teachers finished up and we had those extra days to finish up tasks like cleaning up the classroom, packing stuff up, whatever.

If I knew I had completely new assignments for the fall, I did that planning somewhat before the school term started in the fall.

And the part about your wife teaching others to teach does not apply to the vast majority of teachers either. Now I did have student teachers on a fairly regular basis, but the follow up was done prior to that student teacher going back to their studies, in other words, during the school year and not after the school year ended.

Now, I think it is quite one thing to say "I have job shadowed teachers for 12 years and know everything that teachers do" as sliver stated. That is a very simplified and childish approach to not only analysing the teaching profession, but any profession in general.

It is also another thing to glorify the profession and imply that all teachers have on going tasks that apply to all, when they simply do not.

I know the value of teaching in our society. I also know the extra hours I put in, not only with planning, grading, correcting, the 2 extra curricular activities that were mandatory for every teacher in my school, whatever. But I put in those hours during the school year. I coped like any other professional would and does.

One thing I would like to comment on, that came from another of your remarks within this thread, alluding to the fact that you could not go to a bar within your community either.

Why on earth not? What is wrong for you to be seen in a social setting doing something that is legal, drinking?

Now if perhaps you could not handle the drinking and you drove drunk, or if you perhaps embarassed yourself regularily in a drunken state, I could see your point. But teachers out and about in the community, no matter if that community is big or small, is just part of life. You should not be expected to hold yourself on any higher pedestal than the rest of your community.

I taught in Calgary, within the Mayland Heighths community. And most every Friday night, many of the teachers from my school went for a drink or two to the Crossroads Inn, not sure if it is there anymore. But tell me, what is wrong with that, unless as I said above, you are not handling the drinking in an appropriate manner?

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

It seems to me that a lot of the pro-teacher arguments involve people who clearly go above and beyond what is actually required of them. I'm sure they are great teachers because of this but. . .just because they do these things does not mean that all teachers are required to. For example, buying classroom tools out of your own pocket is not required. Like everyone else in this thread (haha) I have a bunch of CBE teacher friends and it seems like there is a new trend to not spend any of your own money for your classroom. The ultimate goal is for the financial plans to be restructured so that they won't rely on teachers to use their own money.

As for how much teachers work after hours, I do know that in addition to regular class time they are also required to put in extra curricular efforts such as being a football coach or something. The lesson planning/marking is also mostly done after hours but the more experienced you are the easier those duties become. Teachers work hard but I would say they don't work any harder than than any other career I know of. In this day and age, everyone I know puts in extra hours at night or on the weekends. Tis life.

As for the vacation time, yes, teachers get more than any other profession I've ever heard of. All of my friends never do any work over the summer and a lot of them proceed to take 6 to 8 week vacations abroad. They go back to work about 5-7 days before the school year begins from what I've seen. One thing a lot of people are considering though is the exchange of salary for the time off? Would you rather have the time off from work for a reduced salary or work more from increased pay? Tough question in my opinion.

All in all, I appreciate the social service that teachers do but I'm kind of sick of all my teacher buddies bragging to me about how much time they get off . . . dinks . If you want to talk about a crappy teaching gig lets talk about being a sessional instructor at a university haha.

You make some good points here. I think this thread may be starting to get off track a little and conveying the wrong message. I don't think anyone's trying to paint the profession as some "doom and gloom" thing(at least I'm not), of course its got its benefits. I've got lots of teachers in my extended family and to be honest quite a few of em can be whiners sometimes(and that's coming from someone who's about to enter the profession next year). Teaching definitely has its perks, no question, like any other job.

I think part of the reason why teachers can be so vocal and defensive about how tough their job is, is due to the flak they deal with(eg. Sliver's brilliant comment about it being "a part-time job with full-time salary"). That's just such an ignorant and clueless statement, and frankly its repeated alot. So I think teachers get offended because there's clearly a LOT more work involved than many, many people realize, obviously. If people constantly belittled the industry you're in(and by "you", I mean anyone) and how easy they think it is, I'm sure you'd pipe up to defend it as well. I never understood why teachers get crapped on so much by people. Maybe it's jealousy over the summers off thing.

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by redforever

It is also another thing to glorify the profession and imply that all teachers have on going tasks that apply to all, when they simply do not.



Why on earth not? What is wrong for you to be seen in a social setting doing something that is legal, drinking?

Now if perhaps you could not handle the drinking and you drove drunk, or if you perhaps embarassed yourself regularily in a drunken state, I could see your point. But teachers out and about in the community, no matter if that community is big or small, is just part of life. You should not be expected to hold yourself on any higher pedestal than the rest of your community.

a) I didn't glorify my wife's job, I took exception to the fact, that someone felt that teachers only work from 8:30 - 3:30 and they have all this other time off and they get overpaid for it. That was my biggest beef!

b)ever live in a small community? and no, I'm not saying it happens all the time but my wife's principal has been called 3 times, this year already, from parents who saw teachers drinking copious amounts of alcohol, when in reality they went to a local lounge and had a couple of drinks on a friday after work. Small community, big microscope.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Sample00

a) I didn't glorify my wife's job, I took exception to the fact, that someone felt that teachers only work from 8:30 - 3:30 and they have all this other time off and they get overpaid for it. That was my biggest beef!

b)ever live in a small community? and no, I'm not saying it happens all the time but my wife's principal has been called 3 times, this year already, from parents who saw teachers drinking copious amounts of alcohol, when in reality they went to a local lounge and had a couple of drinks on a friday after work. Small community, big microscope.

Definitely. Anyone who thinks this doesn't happen is kidding themselves(and doesn't understand how crazy some parents can be when it comes to their kids, especially these days). I know a guy that almost got fired simply because one of his students saw him having a pop somewhere, thought it was a beer, told her parents, who freaked out and called the school board. They actually had to have a night "town hall"-type meeting to clear it up, just because of what some 7 year old said. It really does happen like that.