Quebec: Judge rules "Students must learn about other religions"

[Thor]

For those of you who were following this story, the judge ruled to support this new mandatory religious history class over the ire of some parents.

MONTREAL -- Christian parents who objected to their children being taught about other religions in a mandatory new Quebec school course have suffered a serious setback with a ruling this week that the teachings do not infringe their religious freedoms.

Quebec Superior Court Justice Jean-Guy Dubois dismissed a bid by parents in Drummondville, Que., who said the course on ethics and religious culture introduced across the province last year was undermining their efforts to instill Christian faith in their children.

Oh the irony in that bolded quote.


Best quote in the article:

"What parents were demanding was the right to ignorance, the right to protect their children from being exposed to the existence of other religions," he said. "This right to ignorance is certainly not protected under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Freedom of religion does not protect the right not to know what is going on in our universe."

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1956333

[LChoy]

Wow, I didn't realize this was such a big issue. It seems like a good idea.

[mykalberta]

This will go to the Supreme Court.

Quebec values dont supercede the right of Canadians - not so long as they are a province within the Dominion of Canada.

[MarchHare]

How long do you think it will be until those same Christian parents start lobbying the Quebec government for a copy of Alberta's Bill 44?

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

This will go to the Supreme Court.

Quebec values dont supercede the right of Canadians - not so long as they are a province within the Dominion of Canada.

What right is being violated by including the study of different world religions in a social studies curriculum?

[LChoy]

FYI, Alberta Bill 44 is on hold to at least next school year

[Phaneuf3]

Had not heard of this until now.
Good on them for making a course like this and making it mandatory.

"We're not talking about mathematics or French or English here. We're talking about something that involves the essence of the culture of people."

What a silly argument. In social studies you learn about other cultures all the time. In jr high there was a decent portion of one of the years spent on Japan for example. Learning about Japan and Japanese culture/history did not turn me Japanese any more than learning about Islam will turn these precious snowflakes into Muslims.

[Knalus]

The issue here if I understand things right isn't that these parents are likely to want their children to be willfully ignorant of other religions, but that there is a wish to control the method, manner, timing and presentation of such things to one's children. This is not a bad thing, and is a form of responsible parenting.

For those who don't understand this, think about how children are exposed to sex for the first time. The manner in which it is done can often irrevocably affect a persons attitudes to it for the rest of their lives. A responsible parent usually doesn't want their child to never learn of it, but would rather not have just anybody do the teaching. They might start thinking that porn is normal or some such thing.


Then there's the flip side of this one, too. It's not allowed to instill Christian values into children in school, but now they should learn about other religions? To some, this seems like a double standard (which in some cases it very much is).

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

What right is being violated by including the study of different world religions in a social studies curriculum?

Not sure what social studies course you took, but in Alberta public schools SS 03-30 had nothing to do with religion at all at least in the late 90's. The only thing that comes close are when we went through the history of Japan/ww2 and briefly went over how the emperor was considered a living god.

While I dont know alot of the specifics of Canadian law - there should be a separation of church and state. No province should be shoving religion down the throats of students - I dont care in what form or for what purpose.

Forcing them to take this course from grade 1 to 12 - only in QC.

There were religion courses taught, but your parents could choose that you opt out. The time spent drawing 60 minutes a week durring grades 2-6 - what memories

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

This will go to the Supreme Court.

Quebec values dont supercede the right of Canadians - not so long as they are a province within the Dominion of Canada.

Took all of three posts to construe this into a Quebec vs. rest of Canada issue.

Congratulations

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

While I dont know alot of the specifics of Canadian law - there should be a separation of church and state. No province should be shoving religion down the throats of students - I dont care in what form or for what purpose.

This isn't teaching the dogma of each religion though. It's teaching what each religion is about. No one religion should be taught more than any other. It should be an exercise in increasing tolerance in other faiths.

[troutman]

Learning about other religions as a young person certainly caused me to think "well, they can't all be right . . . "

[Thor]

A post from another site from a QC highschooler who took this course:

Am an high school student and I am in those same news classes (Éthique et culture religieuse, which basicaly translate into ethic and religious culture) that are mentioned in this article.

My only concern about these sorts of "lets just teach the bare facts about what various religious beliefs are, without forcing people to profess belief in them" ideas is that in practice political correctness gets in the way of factual correctness when teaching those "bare facts". For example, do you think they'll be honest enough to accurately describe the concept of Kafirs and Dhimmis when teaching about what Islam's scriptures say? Hell no they won't. They'll instead insist on the lie that there's nothing nasty in any religion's beliefs, and the tests will require people who know better to lie in order to get a good grade.

I'd love to see a class that was actually honest and really taught what the various religious claims really are. But that's just not going to happen. Instead of being honest, they'll water things down to make sure religions are presented with the bad bits filtered out.

Don't worry, it's not watered.

Last year, we had to pick a religion or sect and talk about it. Our team chose satanism. It was pretty fun.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by troutman

Learning about other religions as a young person certainly caused me to think "well, they can't all be right . . . "

Bertrand Russell wrote that one of the first steps he took as a child on the path to no religion was to realize that there were multiple religions, and while they could not all be right, they could all be wrong.

Dan Dennett has also pointed out that teaching "comparative religion" is poison to religious fundemantalism.

[LChoy]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Not sure what social studies course you took, but in Alberta public schools SS 03-30 had nothing to do with religion at all at least in the late 90's. The only thing that comes close are when we went through the history of Japan/ww2 and briefly went over how the emperor was considered a living god.

While I dont know alot of the specifics of Canadian law - there should be a separation of church and state. No province should be shoving religion down the throats of students - I dont care in what form or for what purpose.

Forcing them to take this course from grade 1 to 12 - only in QC.

Maybe I misinterpreted the article incorrectly, but isn't the problem that there was originally a religion class with the focus on Christianity? The new rules are to change that to cover all religions instead. I agree that we shouldn't be forcing students to become religious, however learning about it is an entirely different matter. It'll help students grow up to be more well rounded. Far too many conflicts in this world is brought about through misunderstanding and ignorance. Having a balanced education about how the world works will go a long way to understanding how one fits in this world.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Not sure what social studies course you took, but in Alberta public schools SS 03-30 had nothing to do with religion at all at least in the late 90's. The only thing that comes close are when we went through the history of Japan/ww2 and briefly went over how the emperor was considered a living god.

While I dont know alot of the specifics of Canadian law - there should be a separation of church and state. No province should be shoving religion down the throats of students - I dont care in what form or for what purpose.

Forcing them to take this course from grade 1 to 12 - only in QC.

Separation of church and state is a good idea for sure. Something like this course should not (and does not) force religious belief on anybody. This is simply some basic information about religions in general and religious history. If you think that schools should not be shoving history down students throats then that's an entirely different fight than this one.

History and politics have been and currently are shaped greatly by religions; to think otherwise is foolish. If you want proof, look no further than this court challenge.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Not sure what social studies course you took, but in Alberta public schools SS 03-30 had nothing to do with religion at all at least in the late 90's. The only thing that comes close are when we went through the history of Japan/ww2 and briefly went over how the emperor was considered a living god.

I went through the public education system in New Brunswick; we spent half a year in grade 9 social studies learning about different world religions. My wife was educated in the Catholic (!!) system in Saskatchewan, and she also learned about the beliefs of other religions in school.

To not provide knowledge about such an important part of global culture in the public education system is a massive disservice to the students.

While I dont know alot of the specifics of Canadian law - there should be a separation of church and state. No province should be shoving religion down the throats of students - I dont care in what form or for what purpose.

Teaching about different religions is not at all the same thing as "shoving religion down the throats of students". Even as an atheist, I recognize the value of this curriculum.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Took all of three posts to construe this into a Quebec vs. rest of Canada issue.

Congratulations

It could be any province - its classic irony that it is this province - the same province that forces its language down my throat, the same culture that will likely force where I live to increase the size of speeding tickets to incorporate their language (even though they can pass a law about the size of English lettering). The same province that votes in 40ish Canada hating MPs to Canadas parliment (ironically likely benefiting me by not allowing the Liberals to win those seats).

Part of me hopes QC wins this impending legal battle, that way Alberta has a better chance of winning its case. What happens in QC is of little concern to me, but the legal system in this country tends to make other regions squabbles my problem.

[Puppet Guy]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

What right is being violated by including the study of different world religions in a social studies curriculum?

the right to remain ignorant?

[CaptainCrunch]

Does this mean all religions?



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