The Blue Jays: 2009 Season Thread - Page 68 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

SteveToms · 07-30-2009, 04:42 PM

The thing about Rios, is I see a lack of desire and caring in him. However, he is a better CF then Wells.

Gozer · 07-30-2009, 04:43 PM

FYI: the game winning pitch that Ichiro hit off Downs.

flambers · 07-30-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

Thomas and Ryan got tens-of-millions in buyouts. As an organization they've shown they'll make tough moves like that to improve the team.

Totally different situations both of those guys had a 1 year to a 1 1/2 remaining where Wells has ~ 100M remaining. There is no way the Jays will buyout Wells or sit Wells etc....

Gozer · 07-30-2009, 04:56 PM

I don't expect a buyout, only a reduction in role.

Da_Chief · 07-30-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

I don't expect a buyout, only a reduction in role.

to what? with that kinda salary he has to start, maybe not in the middle of the lineup but hes useless everywhere so it doesn't matter.

bluejays · 07-30-2009, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

I thing JP really blew it with the handling of the potential trading of Halladay. I think Philly was giving up enough prospects to justify trading Halladay. It would have been a nice jolt of young talent to kick start a reloading of the Jays.

I don't think so at all (and I'm really not a JP fan at all). It's not like JP was asking for a MLB ready prospect like David Price. These by all accounts are prospects that may/maynot pan out. If a team like the Phillies wouldn't part with their best prospect for the best pitcher in the game in a non-rental situation (how often does that happen?), then JP was absolutely correct to back off. The Phillies did do a solid deal in getting Lee for cheap, but at the end of the day you have to give to get and getting the best pitcher, having him already signed for a year and not being prepared to give up your best prospect is just dumb. Perhaps it's spite with the GM not wanting to deal with JP (I'd think a lot of GM's don't wanna deal with the bum), but getting a franchise player for crap isn't doable. Anyone can get rid of the guy, clearly ANYONE can do that, but you have to get value for perhaps the best Jay ever.

moon · 07-30-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

I don't think so at all (and I'm really not a JP fan at all). It's not like JP was asking for a MLB ready prospect like David Price.

JA Happ is pitching pretty well for a first place team so I would say that he is MLB ready. Considering he is having a better season than Price he may be more ready than him in fact.

Quote:

The Phillies did do a solid deal in getting Lee for cheap, but at the end of the day you have to give to get and getting the best pitcher, having him already signed for a year and not being prepared to give up your best prospect is just dumb.

It wasn't not wanting to give up their best prospect it was giving up 3 of their best 4 that they didn't want to do.

Lee isn't much of a drop off from Halliday and in the end I am not sure that Halliday makes them that much of a better team that it is worth it to give up the prospects JP wanted.

Quote:

Anyone can get rid of the guy, clearly ANYONE can do that, but you have to get value for perhaps the best Jay ever.

I know people love Halliday and perhaps these guys weren't around long enough but Henderson and Clemons were the best players ever to play for the Jays, but maybe being the best Jay means more than just talent to you.

tanguay'sstillgood · 07-31-2009, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAnotherGuy

I thing JP really blew it...

Just thought I would shorten that to the important part for you.

zukes · 07-31-2009, 07:04 AM

Well, 7 hours left. If they keep Halladay, the Jays had better throw caution to the wind next year, spend a little and make a run. Why not? Toronto is starved for a winner in any sport, have you looked at the sporting landscape there? They would be filling the Rogers Centre if they were in contention this late in the season, guaranteed.

Fire JP, get in a GM who is willing to keep Cito, trade only one of Rolen, Scutaro or Downs and build for next year right now.

I know it won't happen, but one can dream.

JayP · 07-31-2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Problem is Rios has a low average (.265), he is not producing RBI's (has 53 RBI's in 101 games).

As for Double's last time I checked he has 24 doubles in 101 games. which puts him on pace for ~ 35 and puts him 5th on his team.

In my opinion there is a reason why Gaston had Rios moved down in the batting order.... Allot more is expected from this guy.

This year the Offense has come from unlikely sources (Scutaro, Hill and Lind) and the 3rd and 4th hitters had terrible starts to the season

Well, AVG alone and especially RBIs are terrible ways to judge a player, but I won't get into that.

It's pretty obvious Rios is having a down year. But I don't see how that completely overrides his past 3 productive seasons. Last time I checked, he has had 47, 43, and 33 (in 450 PA - on pace for 47 over a full season's 650 PA) in those 3 seasons. Why do those 450 PA in a down year mean more than the rest of his time as a fulltime MLBer?

JayP · 07-31-2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Rios is paid to be allot more than just a defensive outfielder... that's the problem...

No, he's really not.

Combining all his skills into value (Wins Above a Replacement Player), his dollar value has been $24.6M, $18.9M, $12.1M through 2008-2006 (http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...90&position=OF). Even in a down year his value is still said to be $5.7M.

Currently he's making $6.4M and is set to average $10-11M over the next 5 years.

The problem is that Rios is a lot more than a defensive OFer - he's a defensive OFer that can hit above-average. That's a much more valuable commodity. Nyjer Morgan he is not.

flambers · 07-31-2009, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayP

Well, AVG only and especially RBIs are terrible ways to judge a player, but I won't get into that.

It's pretty obvious Rios is having a down year. But I don't see how that completely overrides his past 3 productive seasons. Last time I checked, he has had 47, 43, and 33 (in 450 PA - on pace for 47 over a full season's 650 PA) in those 3 seasons. Why do those 450 PA in a down year mean more than the rest of his time as a fulltime MLBer?

I agree, Rios is having an off year... Which is why he will get so much heat from the Fans and Media.... Pro's can not have off years and expect not to get the pressure...

Hopefully he can rebound next season

flambers · 07-31-2009, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayP

No, he's really not.

Combining all his skills into value (Wins Above a Replacement Player), his dollar value has been $24.6M, $18.9M, $12.1M through 2008-2006 (http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...90&position=OF). Even in a down year his value is still said to be $5.7M.

Currently he's making $6.4M and is set to average $10-11M over the next 5 years.

The problem is that Rios is a lot more than a defensive OFer - he's a defensive OFer that can hit above-average. That's a much more valuable commodity. Nyjer Morgan he is not.

You do realize the Blue Jays Payroll is around $80M with rumours there will be pressure to lower it...........Rios is taking a fair chuck of the Payroll... Rios average salary will be ~ 10M.

As for Rios, personally I view this guy as an average outfielder who could be easily replaced with another outfielder at allot lower cost....

He needs to rebound next season and find his groove or I bet he is gone....

loob job · 07-31-2009, 01:49 PM

Rolen just got traded to the Reds per Fox Sports.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9...'s-edition

JohnnyFlame · 07-31-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zukes

Well, 7 hours left. If they keep Halladay, the Jays had better throw caution to the wind next year, spend a little and make a run. Why not? Toronto is starved for a winner in any sport, have you looked at the sporting landscape there? They would be filling the Rogers Centre if they were in contention this late in the season, guaranteed.

Fire JP, get in a GM who is willing to keep Cito, trade only one of Rolen, Scutaro or Downs and build for next year right now.

I know it won't happen, but one can dream.

Well it looks like one of the steps in your plan has taken place.

Machiavelli · 07-31-2009, 01:58 PM

@#%@#% I HATE Encarnacion!!!

phiten · 07-31-2009, 02:01 PM

woooooow we got Yonder Alonso, number one prospect in the reds organization

loob job · 07-31-2009, 02:01 PM

Looks like a great deal for the Jays. No. 1 pick from last year.

Machiavelli · 07-31-2009, 02:05 PM

Oh, I just saw En + a prospect. Didn't know we got Alonso (thought he was untouchable???)

Sylvanfan · 07-31-2009, 02:05 PM

Well Rolen was having a really good season for the Jays. Encarnacion I believe was in Dusty Bakers dog house at times for not hustling on the field. He is younger and does have a bit of pop in his bat. He's coming off a wrist injury and his numbers are pretty bad this year. Hopefully he can recover from it and get some of his power back. I admit that I no very little about Alonso, but a first round pick from last year should have good potential.