Former justice Thomas Braidwood has released his preliminary findings from the inquiry into the use of Taser stun guns by police, and has called for fundamental changes to when they are deployed.
In a written statement Thursday, Braidwood said his report "bluntly states" that the provincial government has abdicated its responsibility to establish provincewide standards for the use of the stun guns, and he made 19 recommendations to the B.C. government.
I guess cops should just use pistols then? They seem much less lethal.
Boblobla, do you actually read things or just chime in with whatever you're thinking?
The judge didn't condemn tasers. He just said what many of us have argued - the threshold for their application is too low right now and the police (and public) need to better informed to their use. Seems pretty reasonable to me, even if you disagree with his findings.
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.....or cops could just refrain from physically punishing people all together. They should go back to the "chicken wing" method or point their pistol at someone as a last resort.
As we have seen, many times the tasers get used on innocent people who are being non-compliant or annoying. If you go into the "This is bull" cop abuse thread, you will see plenty of examples of tasers being used on the elderly, children, mentally handicapped etc. That is flat out abuse.
The tasers are being abused because cops rely on the fact that they are "non-lethal" equipment, and I think they should be abolished.
His findings are classic lawyer jibberish. What situation is allowed for their application. That kind of thinking doesnt take in real world scenarios. Looking through everything with a microscope afterwards is easy, dealing with them while they happen is there the situation tends to be more murky. Will this judge take responsibility if a situation didnt warrant a taser and something happens to the cop.
For the majority of the time, Tasers are used because someone is being an ass who shouldnt. In public if you see someone getting away with stuff and the police bring out ye olde taser manual to check to see if the situation warrants you could have a larger problem on your hands. If the cops taser the trouble maker its likely others arent going to start.
Its unfortuante when people die from Tasers but 99% of the time I believe its warranted (the use of Tazers, not necessarily the death).
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His findings are classic lawyer jibberish. What situation is allowed for their application.
Give me a break. I'm not saying you have to agree with the findings, and we have yet to see the report, but it's not like he just slapped some words on a piece of paper.
Moreover, he gave the government the right to develop the instances of application. After training and education as to application, the idea is that taser use would be minimized and hopefully unintentional deaths can be avoided. How can that possibly be bad? Not only would it be good for the public, but it would also be good for the cops, no? It would allow them to know their limits and also have a system in place for their defence is something bad does happen after using the taser.
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The great CP is in dire need of prunes!
"That's because the productive part of society is adverse to giving up all their wealth so you libs can conduct your social experiments. Experience tells us your a bunch of snake oil salesman...Sucks to be you." ~Calgaryborn 12/06/09 keeping it really stupid!
I truly believe that in a lot of cases where the taser is used, the police officer is in no immediate danger (such as the airport example).
Instead, the taser is used as a "punishment device", for failure to comply with the officers orders (again, such as the airport example).
This is wrong.
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I truly believe that in a lot of cases where the taser is used, the police officer is in no immediate danger (such as the airport example).
Instead, the taser is used as a "punishment device", for failure to comply with the officers orders (again, such as the airport example).
This is wrong.
I would disagree with the "punishment device" statement. I do agree that it is probably used more than it should be but not because an officer wants to "punish" someone but becuase it is a easy and effective tool that can be used to overcome resistance.
Lets also remember, the use of force continuum allowed for the officers to use the taser on activly resisting people. It was the policy makers that said it was ok to use it. Don't blame the officers. (in most cases).
Too much support for police officers on this board. They can get away with anything and not face any disciplinary action for it. Im tired of hearing about a story like this of an officer severly beating someone/tasing disorderly people/whatever. Sure theres an inquiry, but has a cop every lost his job from an incident like this? very rarely.
Too much support for police officers on this board. They can get away with anything and not face any disciplinary action for it. Im tired of hearing about a story like this of an officer severly beating someone/tasing disorderly people/whatever. Sure theres an inquiry, but has a cop every lost his job from an incident like this? very rarely.
Hardly. More like, too many people think they know what they're talking about regarding police issues, when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about.
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Tase 'em all I say. I'm glad someone isn't monitoring everything I do at my job and calling it into question publicly when something doesn't go as planned. How many times are tasers deployed and successfully prevent/deter a serious incident and behave exactly they're expected to? Who cares, that's like a dog bites man story.
Hardly. More like, too many people think they know what they're talking about regarding police issues, when they clearly have no idea what they're talking about.
funny, I was going to say there's too many condescending know-it-alls around here who seem to think society should adapt to police force, rather than that force being restrained by the desires of a just and democratic society.
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I think the taser is being used as a cattle prod. It is used to gain compliance when a simple discussion would likely suffice.
In the case of the Vancouver airport incident, it wasn't even just the taser, rather it was a series of mistakes and errors in judgment that resulted in tragedy.
For example:
There may or may not have been a polish speaker in the vicinity. Why did the cops not use him, if available?
When you have four male cops surrounding a jet-lagged, disoriented person, why the need for the taser?
After he was tasered, why not let emergency personnel treat the victim?
Finally, at the hearing, the police have supposedly been contradictory of each others testimony.
Of course, not wanting to get sued, these observations are based on what I heard on the news. I was not at the hearing.
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There was a polish speaker in the vicinity. Why did the cops not let him translate?
When you have four male cops surrounding a jet-lagged, disoriented person, why the need for the taser?
Yeah.
Hind sight. Dude was smashing the place up with a computer screen / table. Plus, it's not like he was a small dude. Whether or not it was justified, Dusenchskikikik or however you spell it seems to be put in a light that he was an angel and did absolutely nothing wrong.
Also, it's easy to say they should have taken all the time in the world to deal with it after the fact. What if he killed an airport worker by smashing her in the face with the computer? Then what? People would be seething that the police did nothing. It's a lose-lose situation. It's unfortunate he died, it really is.
Hind sight. Dude was smashing the place up with a computer screen / table. Plus, it's not like he was a small dude. Whether or not it was justified, Dusenchskikikik or however you spell it seems to be put in a light that he was an angel and did absolutely nothing wrong.
Also, it's easy to say they should have taken all the time in the world to deal with it after the fact. What if he killed an airport worker by smashing her in the face with the computer? Then what? People would be seething that the police did nothing. It's a lose-lose situation. It's unfortunate he died, it really is.
Picture this:
A Canadian flies to Warsaw Poland, speaks no Polish, is left, without any help for 8 hours in the customs area.
I think "Dusenchskikikik" might be a bit upset at that point.
I also know that if that happened to a Canadian in Poland our Gov't would be set to launch missiles at Poland.
__________________ “The fact is that censorship always defeats it's own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion.”
Picture this:
A Canadian flies to Warsaw Poland, speaks no Polish, is left, without any help for 8 hours in the customs area.
I think "Dusenchskikikik" might be a bit upset at that point.
I also know that if that happened to a Canadian in Poland our Gov't would be set to launch missiles at Poland.
We have missiles?
The way I imagine Mr. Canada's flight to Poland, it doesn't include chucking furniture around because he's in a foreign country and he doesn't speak the language.
Being upset doesn't give you the right to start chucking property and endangering the safety of other staff and passengers in the customs area.
I'm not arguing that he shouldn't have been helped. But there has to be an onus on a grown man to look after himself. If he can't, then his caregiver must. It's a terrible situation that had the worst possible result. All I'm saying is that in my opinion, the fault doesn't lie directly on the RCMP and the Airport staff.
The way I imagine Mr. Canada's flight to Poland, it doesn't include chucking furniture around because he's in a foreign country and he doesn't speak the language.
Being upset doesn't give you the right to start chucking property and endangering the safety of other staff and passengers in the customs area.
I'm not arguing that he shouldn't have been helped. But there has to be an onus on a grown man to look after himself. If he can't, then his caregiver must. It's a terrible situation that had the worst possible result. All I'm saying is that in my opinion, the fault doesn't lie directly on the RCMP and the Airport staff.
OK but chucking furniture is not a capital crime either.
And when someone is irrational, part of the police duties should include calming the person down without using lethal force.
I understand hindsight is 20/20; however, the reason we vigorously train cops is so they can be rational in the face the irate. Obviously being a cop needs to involve good communication as well as tactical skills.
I hope the Vancouver airport and the RCMP both get a good reprimand. They are both IMO very much to blame.
__________________ “The fact is that censorship always defeats it's own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion.”
OK but chucking furniture is not a capital crime either.
I agree. In this case, there was no intent to kill him. If there was, the police would be facing murder charges.
Quote:
And when someone is irrational, part of the police duties should include calming the person down without using lethal force.
I agree. However, their duties also include protecting themselves and others. If there is a threat, they have to deal with that and sometimes force is needed. IMO, using lethal force would have been rolling in, guns blazing and shooting him dead. Whether the taser was justified or not, I don't really want to get into that because I don't know. But they used 'less-lethal' methods. Semantics? Maybe. Depends on how lethal you think a taser is. Personal opinion, I suppose.
Quote:
I understand hindsight is 20/20; however, the reason we vigorously train cops is so they can be rational in the face the irate. Obviously being a cop needs to involve good communication as well as tactical skills.
Right, but if no one around can speak Polish, how can communication barriers be overcome? Probably not by a taser, but he likely wouldn't have been tased if he wasn't acting so aggressive and posing a threat. But this is where the whole argument of if he was helped before, it wouldn't have escalated to this degree. True. But then you can just go back and argue he should look after himself. Followed by a rebuttal that he wasn't mentally fit. .... and on and on.
B.C. Taser inquiry report released
