Raptors 2009 offseason thread

[bluejays]

I'm kinda with the Chief here. I don't like the way basketball GM's do things to please their star players. I don't mind Jack himself, but I get the feeling the only reason Colangelo got him specifically, was to please Bosh. While I'm not sure Bosh is over-rated, I do think he's really not that 1A guy you need to lead your championship team. I think he's the perfect #2 guy with a more athletic guy as your #1, simply because he has no consistent defensive aggression against bigs. If Bosh were to ever get his sissy act in check, he'd be a true #1 guy. I hope if Bosh doesn't negotiate at some point this off-season, Colangelo gets off his seat and ships him off for a solid package.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Suave

The Raptors have signed Jarrett Jack to a 4 year offer sheet. Now waiting to see if Indian matches. The Pacers are having financial difficulties so that might affect their decision.

I think Jack would be a great back-up PG or he could even play the 2. Though at the 2 he doesn’t really help out with their defensive and rebounding problems. On the plus side he is friends with Bosh from their GT days.

It's not finanical difficulties that BC has in his favor here. It's the luxury tax. If they frontload the deal then the Pacers have to go into the luxury tax to match. MLSE won't do that and they are loaded with cash.

Also Jack is way more than a prop to Bosh. Really try looking at the roster before putting it down to that. Who do they have for a backup PG? Roko stinkin Ukic--please. Plus he plays the 2 as well and very well in fact. The gut outplayed TJ and took his starting spot away from him last year.

DD is a very raw player and can play both the 2 and the 3. Delfino if they chose to sign him can play the 2 and 1. Wright can play the 2 and the 3.

In other words they are covering their bases if Calderon gets injured. They are giving themselves plenty of options at the 1 and 2 and 3. They can throw out a better defensive lineup with a Jack, Delfino combo at the 1,2. Heck they can even put Jack at the 1 and Calderon at the 2 if they really want some offense out there.

What it comes down to is there were a number of guys who they could have thrown the MLE at. At least four of them who can play PG and some of those who can play the two as well. All with varying things they do well but all in the exact same price bracket. The best target is Jack because of the luxury tax factor. That is Bosh's best buddy is just a solid X factor.

[bluejays]

I know what you're saying JF, but IMO, these things really tend to flair up later. Where does Jack fit in over the long run with the Raps? He's definitely not a consistent starter on the team, so that leaves him as a backup. Say he gets this itch which we've seen constantly before with other players, and calls out the coach for not putting him in the starting lineup. He keeps management at his mercy because they gotta keep Bosh happy. These guys are making millions of dollars. Keep friendship over the phone or when you're visiting in town. Having friends on a team is a risky situation. When it's good, it's good, but when it comes to wooing a guy like Bosh to stay, in the longterm I don't know if having two friends on a team is a good thing. Now they not only have to keep Bosh happy, they have to keep Jack happy.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by fleury

I know what you're saying JF, but IMO, these things really tend to flair up later. Where does Jack fit in over the long run with the Raps? He's definitely not a consistent starter on the team, so that leaves him as a backup. Say he gets this itch which we've seen constantly before with other players, and calls out the coach for not putting him in the starting lineup. He keeps management at his mercy because they gotta keep Bosh happy. These guys are making millions of dollars. Keep friendship over the phone or when you're visiting in town. Having friends on a team is a risky situation. When it's good, it's good, but when it comes to wooing a guy like Bosh to stay, in the longterm I don't know if having two friends on a team is a good thing. Now they not only have to keep Bosh happy, they have to keep Jack happy.

The only way that Jack wouldn't have a lot of playing time is if DD became some kinda player. He is so raw I can't see that happening for at least a couple of years. Triano said he will get something around 15 minutes(likely as a starter) but he won't play any important minutes unless he earns them.

Jack will be getting minutes at both the one and the two. Plus and it's a big plus Calderon is coming off an injury plagued year. I'm thinking Jack is going to get a lot of playing time and that will be a good thing. He is light years better defensively than Calderon so it's all good.

A little competition is good as well to keep guys on their toes and producing. They are likely to be able to put out a backup for every postion in Jack, Delfino, Wright, Evans and Rasho who can play defense, rebound and who are a lot lot tougher than what they had last year.

This offseason really is amazing. Consider they will have two new starters and a whole new bench. The only carryovers now parked firmly at the end of the bench if they survive the rest of the offseason.

[Suave]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Also Jack is way more than a prop to Bosh. Really try looking at the roster before putting it down to that. Who do they have for a backup PG? Roko stinkin Ukic--please. Plus he plays the 2 as well and very well in fact.

Where did I say the signing was just a prop to Bosh? I said he was a great point guard and can play the 2, same thing you said in your post. With the Bosh thing a bonus, again the same thing you said (X-factor).

If he starts at the 2 then it still doesn't address the defensive issues for the starting five. If he comes off the bench at the 1, then he will lead a very good defensive second unit with Wright, Evans and Rahso. Hopefully they sill have enough money left to sign Delfino so that he can start at the 2. Although they could just go for all out offense with the starters and bring in the second unit when things go sideways.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

I see the move in three dimensions: capable back up, backcourt compeition and a renewed commitment to keeping bosh around.

Jack is a capable back up. In Portland, he woud bully our back court with his ability to hit shots, defend and create size matchup problems. Now, he brings his full court transistion abilities and his half-court acumen to our bench instantly upgrading the depth.

Jack has really come on of late. In portland he was primarily a back-up, injury reserve fill in. HOwever, he proved to be a shrewed first round pick and over his three seasons made noticable improvments as serviceable pg. This past year he did indeed, as another poster mentioned, supplant TJ ford. This type of fact can only increase the competition at the PG spot. I personally liked JC's game when he was fighting for PT with TJ. Also, Jack can come off the bench at the two as a shoot first option. He is a solid shooter and can get to the rim with finish because of his size : 6'3 210. He has little injury trouble, so that is a nice option to have as a contingencey. He will be around for a while with this deal and that might intice CB to reup.

Jack and CB go back to their Gtech days. Chris was there a year and Jack for 3. I actually wanted the raps to draft this dude due to the alma mata connection. We picked Joey not so golden graham instead of him and Granger.

This move instantly makes us better, should Indiana not choose to match. I like our bench now more than two weeks ago. I like it better than last years bench. Now with this move, how much time do Ukic and Banks fight for? Personally I like Ukic, but he is a work in progress. He needs a perimeter shot, but otherwise he is an intriguing package. If he can force defenses to play him honestly then we become spoiled with our depth at 1. If not, I can see him plateauing with the little progress he's made. Banks on the otherhand, is useless. The guy looks lost out there when his offense isn't working. And it seems that he is in the mind set to only look for himself when in the game. That is probably a product of little PT and wanting to quickly reassert/prove himself.

Well, our starting 5 is defenseless, but our bench has some nice pieces for Iavaroni to work with.

[Da_Chief]

4 years 20 mil.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

I see the move in three dimensions: capable back up, backcourt compeition and a renewed commitment to keeping bosh around.

Jack is a capable back up. In Portland, he woud bully our back court with his ability to hit shots, defend and create size matchup problems. Now, he brings his full court transistion abilities and his half-court acumen to our bench instantly upgrading the depth.

Jack has really come on of late. In portland he was primarily a back-up, injury reserve fill in. HOwever, he proved to be a shrewed first round pick and over his three seasons made noticable improvments as serviceable pg. This past year he did indeed, as another poster mentioned, supplant TJ ford. This type of fact can only increase the competition at the PG spot. I personally liked JC's game when he was fighting for PT with TJ. Also, Jack can come off the bench at the two as a shoot first option. He is a solid shooter and can get to the rim with finish because of his size : 6'3 210. He has little injury trouble, so that is a nice option to have as a contingencey. He will be around for a while with this deal and that might intice CB to reup.

Jack and CB go back to their Gtech days. Chris was there a year and Jack for 3. I actually wanted the raps to draft this dude due to the alma mata connection. We picked Joey not so golden graham instead of him and Granger.

This move instantly makes us better, should Indiana not choose to match. I like our bench now more than two weeks ago. I like it better than last years bench. Now with this move, how much time do Ukic and Banks fight for? Personally I like Ukic, but he is a work in progress. He needs a perimeter shot, but otherwise he is an intriguing package. If he can force defenses to play him honestly then we become spoiled with our depth at 1. If not, I can see him plateauing with the little progress he's made. Banks on the otherhand, is useless. The guy looks lost out there when his offense isn't working. And it seems that he is in the mind set to only look for himself when in the game. That is probably a product of little PT and wanting to quickly reassert/prove himself.

Well, our starting 5 is defenseless, but our bench has some nice pieces for Iavaroni to work with.

Starting five is capable of playing some defense. It's not like they just can't do it period. Well other than Calderon who is just hopeless. Bosh could play way better defense but just chooses not to. The only time he is really outmatched is a real physical guy is his cover. AB has gotten a whole lot better and with a defensive coach in place very likely gets better. Turk and Delfino(if he is starting) can both play good defense.

Nothing stellar but if the four of them were doing their jobs and Calderon somehow plays a bit better in a good defensive system they could go from horrendous to mediocre. When you factor in that guys like Kapono were coming in as subs who were even worse on defense than what was in there the improvement could be pretty dramatic.

Even if at the end of the day the roster just improves a couple of notches defensively it will win them some extra games. Their offense is going to be better so the combination will certainly see them at least back to being playoff fodder.

[I wanna be like Miikka]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Nothing stellar but if the four of them were doing their jobs and Calderon somehow plays a bit better in a good defensive system they could go from horrendous to mediocre. When you factor in that guys like Kapono were coming in as subs who were even worse on defense than what was in there the improvement could be pretty dramatic.

Another reason why I like Jarret Jack coming onboard. If Jose is really struggling defensively then Jack can take over and he is a very capable PG at both ends of the court (nothing stellar but definitely a more then stable sub)

[Gozer]

Jack is (or would be) a nice addition, and would nicely compliment Jose and Hedo.

[bluejays]

So apparently the Cavs have signed Jamario Moon to an offer sheet. I'm just wondering what the heck are they thinking? Moon has got to be one of the dumbest players on the court I've ever witnessed. It looks like they're signing him simply for the showtime aspect, but the guy does little else to help a supposedly championship team.

[Suave]

Jack is now a Raptor, Pacers will not match. Presser on Tuesday.

The Indiana Pacers will not match the four-year, $20-million offer the Toronto Raptors made to restricted free agent Jarrett Jack.

“It took a minute, but I was able to secure a contract for four years,” Jack said in a phone interview Sunday night. “I’m looking forward to playing with Chris (Bosh) again. It will be like our freshman year (at Georgia Tech) all over again.

http://www.indystar.com/article/2009...or+Jarret+Jack

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by fleury

So apparently the Cavs have signed Jamario Moon to an offer sheet. I'm just wondering what the heck are they thinking? Moon has got to be one of the dumbest players on the court I've ever witnessed. It looks like they're signing him simply for the showtime aspect, but the guy does little else to help a supposedly championship team.

Agreed. I used to think that he could be developed into a useful situational defender, but he's shown absolutely zero improvement in terms of his smarts, despite having some very solid developmental coaches when he was in Toronto. I've never seen a player bite on pump-fakes as often as Moon. And I get angry just thinking about all the times I'd see him get the ball in the corner, be a quick step away from getting by his man and getting an easy (for him) dunk; and instead he'd settle in, hesitate, and then throw up a three that had no hope. He's the poster boy for the 'all-the-tools, no toolbox' adage.

[Gozer]

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Hard to agree considering what position everyone will play and their style, but IF Bargs plays C, I think I'm gonna be bald this year from pulling my hair out. I used to think he's be a matchup nightmare if he played it, but it's a failed experiment. He can't consistently play tough and even playing C, I don't think he'd get 7 RPG. I like that their big 3 are big, but still not tough enough down low. Hoping Nesterovic and Evans get more playing time down there.

Funny how their projecting Yi to have 8.3? Wow.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by fleury

Funny how their projecting Yi to have 8.3? Wow.

He's averaged 7.9 so far in his career, how is that a stretch at all?

I'd even venture to say that he does better than 8.3

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

He's averaged 7.9 so far in his career, how is that a stretch at all?

I'd even venture to say that he does better than 8.3

To be honest, I didn't know that. In his first season on the Bucks I thought the guy would be huge and he kinda seemed to tail off on NJ. I stand corrected though.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Gozer

To me those Pacer totals look ridiculous. Murphy for 12.5? Foster seems a little high too for a season avg. When I think 12, almost 13 rebounds a game I'm thinking Ben Wallace or Kevin Garnett a few years ago.

[malcolmk14]

It is not rebounds per game. It is rebounds per 36 minutes.

Troy Murphy averaged 11.8 rebounds in 34 minutes.

Jeff Foster 6.9, in 24.7 minutes.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

^Indeed. Then what were Reggie Evans' numbers? I recall people poo pooing those numbers as inadequate values and metrics to use. Now how does it look? I believe in these metrics as have merit and am still unsold on the team. Evans, Jack and Wright are our best defenders...Not Good!