Selling something and people trying to low ball you with insulting offers

[ma-skis.com]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I realize that I'm 10 pages late to the party.... but a friend of mine is a professional haggler. He's from Somalia where even post civil war, haggling was everyday life. Everything was a negotiation. I've seen him in action.

"Well, you have to understand, I have 4 children.... and we have only one income... and the bills are so hard to pay. We really, really need this, but I can only spare $50. I know the price you are asking is almost twice that, but I can see just by looking at it that it has been collecting dust. So this works out for both of us. Actually, it works out two ways for you.... you get rid of this thing and free up space for other stuff, AND get $50 out of it."

And that was at a Canadian Tire.

did he get it?

[ken0042]

If it was at CT, my guess is "yes." That is probably the easiest retail place to get something for less than the sticker price.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I realize that I'm 10 pages late to the party.... but a friend of mine is a professional haggler. He's from Somalia where even post civil war, haggling was everyday life. Everything was a negotiation. I've seen him in action.

"Well, you have to understand, I have 4 children.... and we have only one income... and the bills are so hard to pay. We really, really need this, but I can only spare $50. I know the price you are asking is almost twice that, but I can see just by looking at it that it has been collecting dust. So this works out for both of us. Actually, it works out two ways for you.... you get rid of this thing and free up space for other stuff, AND get $50 out of it."

And that was at a Canadian Tire.

I went into Golf Town a few weeks ago looking for a 3 wheel push cart. Got the clerk to knock $30 off the price.

[MRCboicgy]

I know you are asking for 5 stars on this thread, but I'll give you 2.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by ken0042

If it was at CT, my guess is "yes." That is probably the easiest retail place to get something for less than the sticker price.

When I worked there, as parts counter lackeys we had access to this stack of price override slips. Looking something up on the system meant I could see what the last sale price of the items was. If the customer was nice to me, cheery, or a hot girl, out came a slip to give them the last sales price.

Was it policy? Probably not. But that's what you get for $5.75 an hour.

[jtfrogger]

I'm late to this thread, but I'll toss in some examples of situations I've been in.

I put in stink bids all the time on eBay. I probably only get about 5% of the things for which I put in a bid. The main reason I do this, is that is that I really don't mind getting rejected. There is always another one that comes along and it doesn't take much effort.

I find that iPhone accessories are the best for this. I usually pay about $0.05 for three screen protectors, $0.25 for silicone skins, and $0.99 for charging cables. And this is the price including shipping, since for these types of things I only look for items with free shipping. The sellers for most of these are not recovering postage, let alone the eBay fees or price of the product.

Are sellers annoyed with me? Probably. But I benefit them. Keep in mind that I drove up the price for 25% of the items where I was the second highest bidder. I am the 2nd highest bidder much more often than I am the highest bidder.

Yeah, this is a different scenario than the one posted here, since it is an eBay auction. My willingness to do a stink bid and the amount of discount I look for is very much related to the amount of effort it takes to do so. On eBay, it only takes seconds. On something that takes an email, it might take a minute or two. I'm not as ridiculous for something where I know it will be rejected.

If someone posts something that I am interested in, I'll do different things. I've offered what they are asking if it is a good price and want to jump on it. I've offered a moderate discount (10-25%) if I think I can get it. Sometimes I have done this and settled on the asking price. I've offered 20-25% discounts on items where the price was great to begin with and had it accepted. I've personally never offered 50% for something that requires an email. The effort to success ratio isn't good enough for me. And I've seen many things where a fair price would be 50%, and just moved on because I figure the seller has no clue what a fair price would be. (e.g. I recently someone try to sell a used Kitchenaid mixer for more than it costs new. His listing even said that his price was firm)

On the flip side, when selling I've seen people disappointed in my not willing to budge on a price and lose out because they spent too much time bartering. This happened with selling Flames tickets here on CP. I sold some tickets near the end of the season for face value. A number of people tried to get a discount. I sold them at face value to the first people that offered it. Some of the people that offered a discount came back wanting to pay face value, but they were already sold.

The best barterer are those that know a fair price and know how easy it is to get it somewhere else. Most people are no where near that point, which is why you get ridiculous offers or people accepting sometihing that best for them.

[V]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Thanks for the advice everyone. I've learned a lot from this thread.

I've learned that when you see something you like, go in and offer them 50% or lower even, of the asking price. Apparently, from what I've learned here, this is quite acceptable.
If the seller gets indignant and feels you are wasting his time by making such an insulting offer, look astonished and tell him to chill as this is all part of the negotiating process and you really didn't mean it. You were just trying to gauge how desperate he is and trying to figure out how badly you can screw him over on the price, and he shouldn't take offense as it was nothing personal.

Also I've learned that there is no such thing as fair market value for an item. Fair market value is the lowest price possible that you can talk the seller into selling the item to you. Fairness is no longer a factor in the equation in this day and age. As long as I'm happy thats all that matters. Who cares if the seller later feels he got cheated. This is a dog eat dog world.

Thank you everybody. You've opened my eyes.

See, that's the problem with you young pun...err...kids these days. You get slapped in the face with the real lesson to be learned, and you completely ignore it. In case you were wondering, the correct answer is:

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

You really don't get the point, do you? If you don't want to be low-balled, then don't sell stuff on the Internet.

Maybe it'll stick the second time around.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Can you tell me where I can purchase this internet thing, and how much it would cost me in Kopeks?

How many you got? I also accept Vietnamese Dongs. In case you're wondering, 100 Kopeks is 559 Dongs.

[Devils'Advocate]

For the person that asked, my Somali friend didn't get what he wanted for half price, but did get $20 off. I was amazed. I never thought about trying to haggle at Canadian Tire.

But that's what I was getting at. In many, many countries haggling is second nature. It's all part of the game. People will mark up their product by 50% because they know people will want to haggle them down and feel like they got a good deal.

I, on the other hand, hate that. So if I put something on Kijiji that is $100, I'll say "$100 firm. Will not entertain offers lower than $100."

[Phanuthier]

I have a bit of an opposite story. When I moved a year ago, I threw a whole bunch of furniture and crap on Kijiki. Some lady called me and said she was interested in buying something, so I gave her my address and said come on over; she said she'd be there in an hour because she was driving from the opposite end of the city. When she got to my house, she was with a 5 year old kid and wanted to buy a plastic little cart that I listed for $2. I thought "seriously, you drove half away across town, spent > $2 on gas to do that, and brought a kid to buy this?" I'm not sure she really thought it through whether she was saving more buying this used or now; I felt kind of bad, so I just gave it to her and said don't worry about the $2.

[Pastiche]

Hi I'm late to the party.

Just wanted to say that I love to bargain. I spent alot of time in South-Asia and it is a way of life there. Bargaining is basically about personal respect there. If you don't bargain you lose alot of respect from the people selling to you. They see you as a total moron. It's not necessarily about getting the best deal but about attaining a modicum of decency.

It took a while to get good at bargaining but now I love it. Recently I have sold alot of stuff on kijiji and craigslist. It seems the opening poster doesn't have a good idea on how the whole thing works. You never list an item at the price you want to sell it at. That's barganing/negotiating 101. You know that you'll have to come down so give yourself (depending on the item you're selling) a 20-50-100% cushion. And then come down to the price you want to sell at. Give yourself an absolute zero can't go further point but never let the other party know what that is.

In that end, selling things on the internet works great. Sometimes I get the better of someone buying and other times someone gets me for a good deal. What I factor is what the Somali guy said, I just get to get rid of the damn thing with someone driving to my house to pick it up! Great.

I just sold a TI-85 graphing calculator that's 15 years old yesterday. I had this thing forever didn't know what to do with it so I listed on kijiji at $50. Ended up selling it for $25 and my real sweet spot was $20 (although I would have gone as low as $10). I just wanted it gone.

So the basic lesson is when people want to bargain don't be upset, either say that you don't/can't bargain or engage with them in the process.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by jtfrogger

I put in stink bids all the time on eBay.

As long as you do it "right", then no problem.

Back when I sold a lot I had a certain item I would sell a lot of. The selling price was usually near $200, so I would start the auction at 99¢ with a "buy it now" of $200. Unfortunately the first bid would kill any chance of somebody using the BIN; but I had one bidder who would always bid that 99¢ within minutes of my auction starting, and never bid any higher. He would do the same thing to other sellers who were selling the same item. I finally had to block him; because he was in fact wasting my time and money.

Yes, I know that one could put some blame on me for starting the auction that low. But one of the best things about eBay is letting the market determine the selling price. Of my normally $200 items, my lowest one went for $110, and I had a few that ended up going for over $300. Plus I find a lower start price gets you more bidders.

[transplant99]

Also I've learned that there is no such thing as fair market value for an item. Fair market value is the lowest price possible that you can talk the seller into selling the item to you.

Anytime a seller agrees to a buyers price...you have fair market value.

That's the whole point.

I purchased a vehicle 6 years ago for hauling stuff...I paid 1500 bucks....it was originally listed for 3500. I offered the price i did based on what i was worth to me...not to him. He originally said no thanks, but called me back 3 days after and it was a done deal.

So was I "unfair"? No, of course not.

Just because someone offers less than you want, especially when it comes to cars, don't take it so personally. They are looking for what they want, you are in the market to find someone to purchase your commodity/goods...there is no way you will agree right off the bat unless that item is valued by both the same way.

Good grief, its a pretty simple equation.

[Pastiche]

Originally Posted by ken0042

As long as you do it "right", then no problem.

Back when I sold a lot I had a certain item I would sell a lot of. The selling price was usually near $200, so I would start the auction at 99¢ with a "buy it now" of $200. Unfortunately the first bid would kill any chance of somebody using the BIN; but I had one bidder who would always bid that 99¢ within minutes of my auction starting, and never bid any higher. He would do the same thing to other sellers who were selling the same item. I finally had to block him; because he was in fact wasting my time and money.

Yes, I know that one could put some blame on me for starting the auction that low. But one of the best things about eBay is letting the market determine the selling price. Of my normally $200 items, my lowest one went for $110, and I had a few that ended up going for over $300. Plus I find a lower start price gets you more bidders.

What were you selling pray-tell?

[Pastiche]

Transplant makes an excellent point. There is no such thing as 'fair' market value. The 'fair' part is a human construction or sentiment applying some type of morality or conscience to the market. The market works as a medium of exchange between people buying and selling things that's it.

[Rhettzky]

I can't wait for the $#it storm that's going to happen the next time Rerun tries to sell something here...

[You Need a Thneed]

I haggled the Beef on a bun vendor at the stampede yesterday...

The marked price was $8.00, I paid $7.94.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by ken0042

As long as you do it "right", then no problem.

Back when I sold a lot I had a certain item I would sell a lot of. The selling price was usually near $200, so I would start the auction at 99¢ with a "buy it now" of $200. Unfortunately the first bid would kill any chance of somebody using the BIN; but I had one bidder who would always bid that 99¢ within minutes of my auction starting, and never bid any higher. He would do the same thing to other sellers who were selling the same item. I finally had to block him; because he was in fact wasting my time and money.

Yes, I know that one could put some blame on me for starting the auction that low. But one of the best things about eBay is letting the market determine the selling price. Of my normally $200 items, my lowest one went for $110, and I had a few that ended up going for over $300. Plus I find a lower start price gets you more bidders.

Someone bidding killed the buy-it-now? I'm almost positive that I've purchased items with buy-it-now that already had bids on them, maybe the ability to do that was added after you were selling.

[ken0042]

In order to preserve the BIN you have to place a reserve on the auction. I tried that; putting the reserve really low just so the first couple of bids would keep in on. That was the only time I had to end an auction early because nobody was bidding.

That was 4+ years ago, so maybe is has changed since then.

[jtfrogger]

Originally Posted by ken0042

As long as you do it "right", then no problem.

Back when I sold a lot I had a certain item I would sell a lot of. The selling price was usually near $200, so I would start the auction at 99¢ with a "buy it now" of $200. Unfortunately the first bid would kill any chance of somebody using the BIN; but I had one bidder who would always bid that 99¢ within minutes of my auction starting, and never bid any higher. He would do the same thing to other sellers who were selling the same item. I finally had to block him; because he was in fact wasting my time and money.

Yes, I know that one could put some blame on me for starting the auction that low. But one of the best things about eBay is letting the market determine the selling price. Of my normally $200 items, my lowest one went for $110, and I had a few that ended up going for over $300. Plus I find a lower start price gets you more bidders.

For anything with a real value, I would normally snipe it. I'll put it on my watch list and bid in the final seconds.

I only put in bids early on mass produced items, such as the iPhone accessories that I mentioned. I have occasionally put a stink bid on something that I plan on sniping but more often than not I put those on my watch list. I don't believe I have ever put a stink bid on something that has a BIN. I put in a minimum bid on something with a BIN if I thought that it was a fair price. Those are situations where the BIN is something like 5-10% more than the minimum bid.

I agree with the low starting value getting the best value. It attracts substantially more attention. There are alway a couple people that get excited about the potential of getting something cheap, and then get more interested once they are outbid. Any time I sell something on eBay, I'll start it for less than $1 with no reserve.