How many people here believe in God, Heaven and angels, Hell and Satan and his demons

[octothorp]

I like that some people are selecting the separator lines (----) as options. Yeah, that pretty much sums up theological beliefs.

[DuffMan]

When you die, you will not even know it, as you will have no consciesness. There will be no you, to even be dead.

[Knalus]

The issue is there is so little actual education on the subject (in the interests of "not pushing beliefs on anyone"), that there is incredibly little intelligent discussion on the subject. Nowadays people grow up not knowing the actual basis of what religion is intended for, that the discussion often devolves - especially on the internets. I'm just pointing out something here, not trying to pick a fight. There are a lot of intelligent people who are athiests/agnostics, who have alot of good reason to be so, but the way I see it, there are a disturbing number of individuals who honestly think that religion is bad because it is about intolerance and starting wars, and us vs them, without having thought it out. That's not to say that someone who has thought it out can't believe that - there are intelligent people who believe that argument too, and they have every right to it. I just think that the level of education out there is so bad when it comes to religion, plenty of otherwise insightful people just haven't been exposed enough to have a similarily insightful discussion on this topic, either.

[carom]

I think religion is kinda like unions. They were a good idea and necessary at one point in time, but that time has passed. I believe that a lack of evolution on religion and unions part has led them to cause more problems then they are worth.

After doing a tiny bit of research i think i qualify myself under the pragmatic agnosticism label. From: http://www.religioustolerance.org/apatheism.htm

"This is the view that millennia of debate has neither proven nor disproven the existence of a God or Gods. However, even if one or more deities exist, they do not appear to be concerned about the fate of humans. Thus, their existence has little impact on humanity and should be of little interest."

I guess if I was really pressed for an answer I would have to say that “But it’s turtles all the way down!”

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Knalus

The issue is there is so little actual education on the subject (in the interests of "not pushing beliefs on anyone"), that there is incredibly little intelligent discussion on the subject. Nowadays people grow up not knowing the actual basis of what religion is intended for, that the discussion often devolves - especially on the internets. I'm just pointing out something here, not trying to pick a fight. There are a lot of intelligent people who are athiests/agnostics, who have alot of good reason to be so, but the way I see it, there are a disturbing number of individuals who honestly think that religion is bad because it is about intolerance and starting wars, and us vs them, without having thought it out. That's not to say that someone who has thought it out can't believe that - there are intelligent people who believe that argument too, and they have every right to it. I just think that the level of education out there is so bad when it comes to religion, plenty of otherwise insightful people just haven't been exposed enough to have a similarily insightful discussion on this topic, either.

Hey... I disagree with that.

I've seen The Exorcist, The Omen, Angels and Demons, The Da Vinci Code, and many other good movies about God, Heaven, Hell, angels, and Satan.

I know what I'm talkin about. Can't fool me. I've seen it with my own eyes at the picture show.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by alltherage

Think about it like this:

One person makes a really cool waterfall in sand toward the ocean, Turns, bumps, moats, lakes, etc etc etc. When he allows the water to flow, it follows his exact path to the water. Every time he pours it, it goes the same way.

Another person just pours the water and lets it make it's own unique path to the water. After each time, he "resets" the sand, and pours again, waiting to see which way it goes.

God doesn't want a bunch of worshipping drones. He wants us to find our own way to the water. Some take longer, some may never get there. Some go straight, others make big turns and pool in certain areas. It's freedom of choice, and its what makes us unique and in God's image.

All the world's religions revolve around one specific premise - faith in the unproveable.

And all the assumptions you just made above are just that, assumptions and, I might add, fairly unproveable beyond your faith in their truth.

Cowperson

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by Knalus

The issue is there is so little actual education on the subject (in the interests of "not pushing beliefs on anyone"), that there is incredibly little intelligent discussion on the subject. Nowadays people grow up not knowing the actual basis of what religion is intended for, that the discussion often devolves - especially on the internets. I'm just pointing out something here, not trying to pick a fight. There are a lot of intelligent people who are athiests/agnostics, who have alot of good reason to be so, but the way I see it, there are a disturbing number of individuals who honestly think that religion is bad because it is about intolerance and starting wars, and us vs them, without having thought it out. That's not to say that someone who has thought it out can't believe that - there are intelligent people who believe that argument too, and they have every right to it. I just think that the level of education out there is so bad when it comes to religion, plenty of otherwise insightful people just haven't been exposed enough to have a similarily insightful discussion on this topic, either.

I agree with lots of what you've said here. I would also like to ask an "Atheist" here, in totally good faith:

Why do some Atheists feel the need to spread their lack of beliefs?

I never understood it, so I'm looking for a real answer here. Like, for example, the bus advertisment:



What's the agenda? I think it might be "ending religion because it breeds hate" but then, through that, Atheists almost breed hate towards organized religion, so it becomes redundant! Confusing.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

All the world's religions revolve around one specific premise - faith in the unproveable.

And all the assumptions you just made above are just that, assumptions and, I made add, fairly unproveable beyond your faith in their truth.

Cowperson

Absolutely. I was simply illustrating a point to answer a question.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

Personally, I believe that Heaven and Hell put on an awesome show last time they were in town. Then again, I'm a huge Geezer Butler fan so...

I also believe that Angels and Demons was a terrible movie.

The world is full of kings and queens, who blind your eyes and steal your dreams. It's HEAVEN and HELL

[CaptainCrunch]

I believe in my own definition of God and that he resides inside me somewhere in the subcockles area of my body, I also believes that he has no real need for organized religion.

I believe in Satan, not as a supernatural leather bound horned freak with wings, but as an expression of our own ego, wants and desires that survives as an expression of evil in our society as long as even one person believes in his. I believe in demons, because demons are those that fall to the temptations of the above defined Satan, and they carry on its work as the weakminded, the fools the criminals and those who put addictions above the good of their families, friends and their places in society.

I believe in Angels but they're not supernatural beings, they're the people that are truly heroic and put others interests above their own.

God, the Devil, Angels and Demons reside in each and every one of you, and they fight a war everyday not for the victory of good and evil or the possession of your soul, but possession of your whole self body and mind.

Thats why I'm ok when that drunken girl called me god several times after Stampede the other night, it was just her inner devil crying out in fear to my inner god.

[carom]

I also wanted to add this because I think it fits the topic. I just got through the chapter "The Grand Inquisitor" in the novel "The Brothers Karamazov" by Fyodor Dostoyevsky. It questions the possibility of a personal, benevolent God. I would recommend reading it if you are interested in this sort of thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Inquisitor

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by alltherage

I agree with lots of what you've said here. I would also like to ask an "Atheist" here, in totally good faith:

Why do some Atheists feel the need to spread their lack of beliefs?

I never understood it, so I'm looking for a real answer here. Like, for example, the bus advertisment:



What's the agenda? I think it might be "ending religion because it breeds hate" but then, through that, Atheists almost breed hate towards organized religion, so it becomes redundant! Confusing.

I didn't just thank you because you thanked me. I like the question you posed afterwards. Have you also noticed that atheists tend to be organizing more and more - to debunk "organized" religion? At least that's the way it appears, what with magazines such as skeptic and the internet presence that appears everywhere.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by carom

I also wanted to add this because I think it fits the topic. I just got through the chapter "The Grand Inquisitor" in the novel "The Brothers Karamazov" by Fyodor Dostoyevsky. It questions the possibility of a personal, benevolent God. I would recommend reading it if you are interested in this sort of thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Inquisitor

I always took it more as a critique of legalism and organized religion.

[Dion]

[photon]

I wouldn't classify myself as an atheist, but I can see several reasons for that kind of advertising.

1) People are social animals and sharing your thoughts, needs, desires, beliefs, hopes, likes, dislikes, etc is a basic human need. Just becomes someone is an atheist doesn't mean they are immune to a basic human need.

2) Atheists are actively marginalized and discriminated against by some groups and individuals, so just like having a gay pride parade is in some ways a response to oppression, signs like this area also a response. It's a way of saying "my view doesn't deserve to be discriminated against, and has every right to be heard".

3) For those who might be undecided, or feel trapped in their religion, signs like this can give the message that being an atheist is ok, that it's not evil. In today's culture it's easier for some to come out of the closet about their sexuality than it is to come out of the closet about their disbelief.

4) For some atheists they conclude that religion results in a net harm against society, so signs like this are an attempt to encourage a benefit to society by having people convert away from religion.

Plus, advertising works.

[moncton golden flames]

god spelled backwards is dog....think about it.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by Knalus

I didn't just thank you because you thanked me. I like the question you posed afterwards. Have you also noticed that atheists tend to be organizing more and more - to debunk "organized" religion? At least that's the way it appears, what with magazines such as skeptic and the internet presence that appears everywhere.

In liu of an answer which I'm sure is coming, I have to agree here. I think part of it is that shock humour etc is so trendy right now. The Buddy Jesus thing, basically any way of mocking religious figures like the Pope, Buddah, whoever.

I honestly think it could also be a little bit of an intellectual superiority complex. People think that because they can't see God that He's like the easter bunny or something, and that they are totally enlightened because they "know" He doesn't exist.

It's that simplistic thinking that usually wins on a message board though, right? No one wants to read 19 paragraphs about why God exists, but they will read that people are stupid for believing something they've never seen.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by moncton golden flames

god spelled backwards is dog....think about it.

Awesome...

[Cowperson]

Even though the basic premise of all religions, organized or not, is faith in the unproveable there is probably some basic desire/hope residing in most of us that it all doesn't end in a shallow grave.

Or, we might call that one "fear."

I get the feeling my dogs don't contemplate their own demise, therefore they do not fear it and, consequently, dogs haven't come up with elaborate belief systems to give themselves the comfort of an after-life, good or bad.

The curse of sentience is that we can understand the finality of death and therefore fear it. We can't accept that finality so we invent comfort food.

Cowperson

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by alltherage

In liu of an answer which I'm sure is coming, I have to agree here. I think part of it is that shock humour etc is so trendy right now. The Buddy Jesus thing, basically any way of mocking religious figures like the Pope, Buddah, whoever.

I honestly think it could also be a little bit of an intellectual superiority complex. People think that because they can't see God that He's like the easter bunny or something, and that they are totally enlightened because they "know" He doesn't exist.

It's that simplistic thinking that usually wins on a message board though, right? Noone wants to read 19 paragraphs about why God exists, but they will read that people are stupid for believing something they've never seen.

Excuse me... but didn't we have a discussion about this before?