Raptors 2009 offseason thread

[bluejays]

I completely agree with Ziggy about the length of contract. 3 years down the road, I really do think Hedo will be a bench player. Basketball has a short shelf life for being a starter, and Hedo isn't super athletic to be considered different. At the end of the day though, I do like what he brings to the table, and I have no doubt with a bigger lineup, they'll be more successful.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by fleury

I completely agree with Ziggy about the length of contract. 3 years down the road, I really do think Hedo will be a bench player. Basketball has a short shelf life for being a starter, and Hedo isn't super athletic to be considered different. At the end of the day though, I do like what he brings to the table, and I have no doubt with a bigger lineup, they'll be more successful.

Hedo has never been overly athletic, hes a shooter, spread the floor and find him, he'll make the shots.

[Prototype]

TSN is reporting a possible sign and trade between TOR and DAL, involving Marion and Stackhouse.

http://tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=283929

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Hedo has never been overly athletic, hes a shooter, spread the floor and find him, he'll make the shots.

That's what I meant. He does take it fearlessly to the basket on occasion too, which is what I'm hoping we see more of consistently.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Man I just lost a long post...bummer!

Stack for marion could be interesting for two pro reasons and one con. He is only guaranteed only 2 million of his 7 million dollar deal. And he is a good offensive option that can get to the line with some regularity, or was that because he played our team and starred against our below average guard play? Where I see this being a problem is the history BC has with these run and gun, super offensive teams.

Those phoenix teams during their hey day with a back 2 back mvp, matrix, amare...et al. What was their playoff fate? Bounced in the Western finals by the Spurs and the Lakers. Those two teams, respectively, are known for their abilities to raise their level of play, consistently, to mirror the occasion. Even the lakers showed this year how dogged, determined, opportunistic and intense they were when they needed to be. That is the type of team I am thinking wins championships. What is he trying to do -BC- ? He knows Turka turka lou doesn't play defense and stack is as aged as a bottle of Glenmorangie 15 years single malt. Does BC think that he will take a shot this year? If so, I point you to my run and gun comparison and the outcome for the original and the fact that defensive units always shut down star players and require team efforts.

With Turka turka lou, the old stack added to delfino, hump, evans, banks, Ukic and derozan, this team screams lottery team with that type of depth. Turka Turka will start. De Ro will start. I just don't see it being a long season, sure there will be excitement though.

This goes back to what gozer and i had been discussing, he brought this point to reason: BC's accountability for questionable moves. He hasn't really had a move that has paid off yet! FACT! Question! What is the Best Type of Bear! FAct!: BlackBear...sorry watching too much office lately. Well, he did bring AP over, 3 years too late!

Derozan and Bargnani are his building blocks. Moon, O'neal, Marion, banks, Kapono, evans, hump, delfino are his frankenstein. If stack plays okay this year and gives cap relief next year, then it assuages the pain of losing Matrix. If evans augments within reasonable expectations then that cancels out the Kapono Koyote Ugly. Otherwise, these two moves have to pay off, or I and many others will be calling for his head. I honestly see him trying to take a run in the next couple of years while turka turka is still able to play at a high level. Perhaps, this type of move convinces chris to stay?

I'm just not convinced.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Hedo has never been overly athletic, hes a shooter, spread the floor and find him, he'll make the shots.

And he can confidently take advantage of a mismatch. But, when that mismatch is equalized then he is rendered to a perimeter facilitator/spot up shooter type. Someone else mentioned this point earlier. But, if he is in fact just a confident shooter, then what was kapono? the base model?

BC is working dilligently at least. I hope he brings Georges Printezis, I think his alleged skills could help our bench and depth situation.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Ziggy Lidstrom

Man I just lost a long post...bummer!

Stack for marion could be interesting for two pro reasons and one con. He is only guaranteed only 2 million of his 7 million dollar deal. And he is a good offensive option that can get to the line with some regularity, or was that because he played our team and starred against our below average guard play? Where I see this being a problem is the history BC has with these run and gun, super offensive teams.

Those phoenix teams during their hey day with a back 2 back mvp, matrix, amare...et al. What was their playoff fate? Bounced in the Western finals by the Spurs and the Lakers. Those two teams, respectively, are known for their abilities to raise their level of play, consistently, to mirror the occasion. Even the lakers showed this year how dogged, determined, opportunistic and intense they were when they needed to be. That is the type of team I am thinking wins championships. What is he trying to do -BC- ? He knows Turka turka lou doesn't play defense and stack is as aged as a bottle of Glenmorangie 15 years single malt. Does BC think that he will take a shot this year? If so, I point you to my run and gun comparison and the outcome for the original and the fact that defensive units always shut down star players and require team efforts.

With Turka turka lou, the old stack added to delfino, hump, evans, banks, Ukic and derozan, this team screams lottery team with that type of depth. Turka Turka will start. De Ro will start. I just don't see it being a long season, sure there will be excitement though.

This goes back to what gozer and i had been discussing, he brought this point to reason: BC's accountability for questionable moves. He hasn't really had a move that has paid off yet! FACT! Question! What is the Best Type of Bear! FAct!: BlackBear...sorry watching too much office lately. Well, he did bring AP over, 3 years too late!

Derozan and Bargnani are his building blocks. Moon, O'neal, Marion, banks, Kapono, evans, hump, delfino are his frankenstein. If stack plays okay this year and gives cap relief next year, then it assuages the pain of losing Matrix. If evans augments within reasonable expectations then that cancels out the Kapono Koyote Ugly. Otherwise, these two moves have to pay off, or I and many others will be calling for his head. I honestly see him trying to take a run in the next couple of years while turka turka is still able to play at a high level. Perhaps, this type of move convinces chris to stay?

I'm just not convinced.

Obviously they wouldn't be taking Stackhouse to play for them. 2 million guaranteed just means you can buy him out by Aug 10th for that sum. Otherwise it's the whole cap hit and they can't afford it. The whole idea is to clear cap space. They have to involve another team and dump a contract. Likely Hump. Because they can't get Orlando to cooperate they need to shed a contract for nothing. Then use the capspace rather than the MLE to buy another player. They nor any other team have zero intention of using Stackhouse. He will be bought out and the team that takes him on will receive the cash to do so along with incentive to do so.

That would be the simplest move. They could make it more complicated adding Banks/Hump and getting back Wright/Williams to use as backup SF. But it has zilch to do with Stackhouse. He is just a two million dollar writeoff.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

I believe you are closer to the eventual outcome, johnny!

Yet, if we dump another contract, isn't our bench even thinner? Now we need to rely on O'Bryant and Quincy Douby, players of that ilk to provide depth. I just am perplexed and am looking forward to the resolutions and ammendments to conclude into next season.

[Da_Chief]

Whats the point of SIGN and trading Marion for Stackhouse? If its just for cap purposes wouldn't it be better if you don't sign Marion? I'm lost here...

[Jason14h]

Whats the point of SIGN and trading Marion for Stackhouse? If its just for cap purposes wouldn't it be better if you don't sign Marion? I'm lost here...

Im guessing the Mavs will send their mid level exemption to the Raptors so they can sign a different player for the 3M (I think that is what the value of it is)

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Im guessing the Mavs will send their mid level exemption to the Raptors so they can sign a different player for the 3M (I think that is what the value of it is)

I don't think the MLE is a trade-able commodity.

[Gozer]

Raptorblog isn't very bullish.
http://www.raptorblog.com/090706a.php

Any other good Raptor blogs out there?

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

Whats the point of SIGN and trading Marion for Stackhouse? If its just for cap purposes wouldn't it be better if you don't sign Marion? I'm lost here...

It's complicated. You have your capspace. Then you have the MLE which is an exception to capspace. Then you have the LLE which is again another exception. Also you have the TPE which is an exemption gained via trade. Then you have the vet minimum.

If BC can do a sign and trade with Orlando being involved(they have to be in on the deal for the Raps to maintain their MLE and LLE status) they can then go out and use those two exceptions to gain at least two players. You don't have to offer the entire MLE to one player so it can in fact get you two players. Raptors MLE is north of five million so they could possibly grab Delfino and Barnes with it. Then grab Rasho with the LLE.

However if Orlando won't do a deal(and there are plenty of scenarios where it makes sense for them to do so, cash, exemptions, picks) then they can still move capspace or grab a TPE. This can net them anything from around 850,000 if they move a POB type player or considerably more if they move Hump.

There are so many ways to accomplish the task but it's got to involve Orlando or a third team or even both. Plus the salaries outgoing and ingoing in a trade have to matchup in this goofy formula(I'm not going into that).

So yes it is very, very complicated and BC will have to be working night and day to get it done. Though it's Marion's agent who is along with Cuban pressing the issue. IF they can do the ultimate deal then Hedo gets more money(bigger raises) Marion gets more money(does not just have to sign to an MLE contract) Dallas gets Marion on the cheap, some team like Memphis who has done these deals in the past gets cash and maybe a 2nd round pick, Orlando would get cash/picks/exemptions and Toronto would get either the MLE/LLE or capspace or capspace and a TPE.

Sheesh!!!!!!!!!! and that's only an outline.

[Gozer]

Nice work Johnny, I wasn't even going to try.

[Suave]

Raptors have signed Bargnani to a five year extension for $50 million.
http://www.tsn.ca/nba/story/?id=284046

[Gozer]

I'm curious how a Bargs/Hedo based offense is going to run, I just can't picture it.

[mykalberta]

Why would they sign garbage to a 10mil deal?

Also, anyone who thinks that the NHL cap is dodgy in the way of front loading contracts - at least its simple to follow. I got a headache reading the post about exceptions.

I was also wondering why they would sign and Trade Marion - thanks - still dont really understand the exceptions but its good to know there is a reason.

[Suave]

I actually think it’s a great deal. I was expecting something more in the $12 million range. He is still improving and already had solid numbers last year (15.4/5.3/1.2). I think he will average close to 20ppg in the next year or two and should be up to 1.5blk.

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by Suave

I actually think it’s a great deal. I was expecting something more in the $12 million range. He is still improving and already had solid numbers last year (15.4/5.3/1.2). I think he will average close to 20ppg in the next year or two and should be up to 1.5blk.

Yep it's a good deal. Very much right in the market big man wise.

[octothorp]

Three way trade shaping up, with Dallas and Toronto getting Memphis on-board. Also a possibility that a fourth team is added (Orlando?).

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4314637