Tsuu T'ina members to vote on SW Ring Road today

[4X4]

Originally Posted by llama64

Read a few history books... Land ownership (and it's related resources) is one of the primary factors in every conflict in human history. It's not just North America.

Getting kinda sick of the "the're a conquered" people argument too. First Nations were not conquered in Canada. They were initially held in high regard by the first European inhabitants (the fur-traders). It wasn't until the settler's showed up that confrontation was encountered when the government out east starting partitioning up the land and "selling" it. The settler's believed they now "owned" the land, while the First Nations had no concept of land ownership at all.

So why'd they fight each other? (the natives, I mean)(honest question, I'm forgetting high school with every day that passes)

[valo403]

Originally Posted by flip

Good one.

However, that is a little different scenario but I was more referring to other places that have "natives" that have been integrated into the culture. There are still numerous areas of the world that have struggles between peoples but rarely is a situation as effed up as Canada seen in the world. In Canada we treat the natives reasonably well (from a gov. perspective) all the while we let them squander it and treat themselves like crap. If we found a way to ween them off of their current situation and integrate them into society we'd be better for it.

Apparently you're world view is incredibly narrow. There are numerous armed conflicts going on all over the world based upon who has a right to do what with the land. By comparison the situation in Canada is incredibly stable.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by 4X4

So why'd they fight each other? (the natives, I mean)(honest question, I'm forgetting high school with every day that passes)

Well think of it this way, you mark out you area of land that you think you now own, and then the natives come through and use that land for their purposes. This of course leads to a 'get off my lawn' confrontation, to which the natives respond 'your lawn?', and the situation snowballs from there.

The whole situation is shockingly reminiscent of what occurs with street hockey balls on a daily basis.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by 4X4

So why'd they fight each other? (the natives, I mean)(honest question, I'm forgetting high school with every day that passes)

There wasn't much fighting between bands on the Prairies (should have been clearer about this - the eastern nations were far different culturally then the Prairie bands).

And if they did, it was more over access to hunting grounds for each tribe - but the concept of an individual actually "owning" land made zero sense to their traditions. Property was communal inside the tribe, so why would people need to own anything?

[flip]

Originally Posted by valo403

Apparently you're world view is incredibly narrow. There are numerous armed conflicts going on all over the world based upon who has a right to do what with the land. By comparison the situation in Canada is incredibly stable.

OMG is it getting stupider in here?

Thank you captain obvious. I am well aware that there are armed conflicts all over the world. You have enlightened me with your genius.

Really? Are you really that simple that you thought I didn't know that Canada is stable? Go read my post again. I said compared to other nations that have integrated natives and treat their natives well, we are kind of effed up. In other words among STABLE situations, ours sucks.

It is honestly like some of you guys read a post and try and find the stupidest context you can possibly interpret and then make an inflammatory post based on that. I don't think some of you understand the irony of being a condescending ahole to others based on their post that you call stupid when really you're the one who can't read within context.

[4X4]

Ah. Thanks llama. Yea valo, I meant bands fighting each other. But thanks as well.

I guess that's why to this day none of them own any land. The houses on the reserves, or at least the land they're on, is owned by the Nation, not the resident that lives on any specific piece of the reserve.

Kinda weird though, they've adopted so much of our technology and lifestyle, yet few assimilate.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by flip

Wow, you totally missed the point of my post.

Please explain how I missed the point. I responded to what you said.

Giving that response without actually providing any clarification is merely a hallmark of someone who doesn't want to listen, but rather confirmed and lauded.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Can't we just tell George Bush that they are hiding secret oil reserves, and then build the road afterwards?

Oh wait... Damn. Stupid Obama. ><

Your right. Obama should come up here and give a speech and WOW them into submission.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by flip

Good one.

However, that is a little different scenario but I was more referring to other places that have "natives" that have been integrated into the culture. There are still numerous areas of the world that have struggles between peoples but rarely is a situation as effed up as Canada seen in the world. In Canada we treat the natives reasonably well (from a gov. perspective) all the while we let them squander it and treat themselves like crap. If we found a way to ween them off of their current situation and integrate them into society we'd be better for it.

Unfortunately, I think that our past attempts (mostly spearheaded by organized religion) have screwed them over too many times and I doubt they'll be ready to join us for a long time. Until then, all we can do is live up to our treaties. That's another reason why I can't be pissed that they wont give us our road.
When you think about it, it's us constantly asking for more and more and more. And what we give them in return is money or compensatory land a little further away from us.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Ah. Thanks llama. Yea valo, I meant bands fighting each other. But thanks as well.

I guess that's why to this day none of them own any land. The houses on the reserves, or at least the land they're on, is owned by the Nation, not the resident that lives on any specific piece of the reserve.

Kinda weird though, they've adopted so much of our technology and lifestyle, yet few assimilate.

It's only "weird" to our European sensibilities. The First Nations were always happy to recieve new technology and ways of doing things - especially in a reciprocal relationship, a hallmark of their cultural tradition. But they have also been incredibly resilient to repeated attempts to assimilate them into our culture and we are beginning to see a lot of push back where their traditions are starting to influence our culture.

In many ways, their traditions have directly shaped the way Canada functions and forms one of cultural differences that separates Canadians from Americans. There is an intriguing book on this particular topic that came out recently called "A Fair Country" by John Ralston Saul.

There is a lot of "hate" dividing the two cultures, but I personally think that the First Nations traditions have a lot of offer, especially in a world where energy demands will need to be better managed then they have in the post-industrial age. (that sounds sorta hippy-ish, eeps)

[4X4]

Originally Posted by llama64

(that sounds sorta hippy-ish, eeps)

Don't worry about it. I'm kinda creeping myself out as well. Good thing my mom doesn't read CP or she'll be convinced I'm a liberal.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Ah. Thanks llama. Yea valo, I meant bands fighting each other. But thanks as well.

I guess that's why to this day none of them own any land. The houses on the reserves, or at least the land they're on, is owned by the Nation, not the resident that lives on any specific piece of the reserve.

Kinda weird though, they've adopted so much of our technology and lifestyle, yet few assimilate.

The legal owner of the land is in fact the crown, however members of band can have certificate of possession on a piece of land that gives them the exclusive use of that land as long as they live on the reserve. It also gives them the right to give, sell or leave to anyone else in the band.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by flip

OMG is it getting stupider in here?

Thank you captain obvious. I am well aware that there are armed conflicts all over the world. You have enlightened me with your genius.

Really? Are you really that simple that you thought I didn't know that Canada is stable? Go read my post again. I said compared to other nations that have integrated natives and treat their natives well, we are kind of effed up. In other words among STABLE situations, ours sucks.

It is honestly like some of you guys read a post and try and find the stupidest context you can possibly interpret and then make an inflammatory post based on that. I don't think some of you understand the irony of being a condescending ahole to others based on their post that you call stupid when really you're the one who can't read within context.

So what other nations have integrated Natives without a high degree of conflict, be it of the armed variety or the legal variety? You're claiming Canada does such a bad job, who does it better?

I look forward to yet another rant that demonstrates your elite level of intelligence.

[ken0042]

The one telling fact from yesterday's vote- out of 900 members, only 61 of them had a big enough problem with this to vote against it.

[Tower]

Originally Posted by flip

Thanks tips. As if anyone didn't already know that.

Then why be so upset over the decision. It is their land.

Tips says,

Your welcome.

[cal_guy]

Originally Posted by ken0042

The one telling fact from yesterday's vote- out of 900 members, only 61 of them had a big enough problem with this to vote against it.

What do you mean? The total turnout was over 700 or over 78% of eligible voters.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

What do you mean? The total turnout was over 700 or over 78% of eligible voters.

I think he meant in percent.

[ricosuave]

http://www.calgaryarea.com/sw/chinoo...20Plan%20C.pdf

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

http://www.calgaryarea.com/sw/chinoo...20Plan%20C.pdf

Horribly laid out plan. Doesn't allow for future growth... I don't see how it can be cheaper... and there are no easy access interchanges (or no room for them).

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

What do you mean? The total turnout was over 700 or over 78% of eligible voters.

OK, earlier in the thread somebody said the vote was 61-39.

Originally Posted by Jayems

They rejected it. 61-39

Wow.