Tsuu T'ina members to vote on SW Ring Road today - Page 5 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Resolute 14 · 06-30-2009, 11:09 PM

Hey, I said it in the first page!

Nobody should be surprised by this. It's all about greed. Wanting more and more and more.

RedMileDJ · 06-30-2009, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Hey, I said it in the first page!

Nobody should be surprised by this. It's all about greed. Wanting more and more and more.

Maybe we should give them a brewery and some cases of Rye, eh?

First Lady · 06-30-2009, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Hey, I said it in the first page!

Touche.

iggnuef · 06-30-2009, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red-Mile-DJ

Maybe we should give them a brewery and some cases of Rye, eh?

or cleaning products

4X4 · 06-30-2009, 11:17 PM

Simply amazing. I'll be voting for the first municipal candidate that proposes a wall from the #8 all the way around Lakeview and from Southland, all the way down 37th.

Ducay · 06-30-2009, 11:24 PM

Oh man, what garbage. City needs to cut street access to the reserve and the casino.

ricosuave · 06-30-2009, 11:39 PM

Oh man, I believe it, but I don't - you know?

KTown · 07-01-2009, 12:02 AM

I can't say I am surprised. They should just do what they would do to you and I, say this is fair value for the land this is what you get now move out of the way because we start construction tomorrow.

RougeUnderoos · 07-01-2009, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iggnuef

or cleaning products

It wasn't funny the first time.

Joborule · 07-01-2009, 12:42 AM

Wow. They rejected.

OK, so what is the city/province suppose to do now?

If this is about greed, then seriously the province should just take up the damn land and place a right of way for the ring road weather they like it or not. In fact, they should set up a right of way west of the current proposed one to make a complete ring road. (rather then the SW leg being indented in) Move west if you don't want to be in Calgary new annexed land since you guys seem to want more money. Because like it or not, that SW ring road is going to be built sooner rather then later.

I'm actually surprised they would reject it. There has to be more to this then just wanted more money or grave sites issues.

4X4 · 07-01-2009, 12:55 AM

Huh. Can't believe I'm about to say this, but I'm starting to understand why they're rejecting it.

Look at the map on this link:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Calgary...726/story.html

And then consider the fact that we (Calgary) own the yellow portion of land, and that their casino is in the upper right hand corner of the brown portion of land (bypassed by new highway), and that a great deal of their houses are right in the swath (How would I know? I cut through there all the time

) of where the highway is going to be.

Frankly, I'm having a bit of a crisis here. Less than an hour ago I wanted to burn teepees. Now I want to burn wagons. Why are we cutting through their land when we don't need to?

If Glenmore/Sarcee turned south at 37th and then jutted back west a bit and passed over the Elbow, and then came back east and re-aligned with 37th, we'd stay on our land the whole time. We wouldn't have to buy anything from them at all. So why the hell are we paying? To keep the road straighter? F'n eh, if we can deal with the ever winding Deerfoot, one large curve in Stoney Trail should be a breeze.
And if the other concern is the cost of expropriating houses along 37th, well, I'll bet it'll be less than $275 million.

I hereby retract my previous posts in this thread.

Joborule · 07-01-2009, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4X4

Huh. Can't believe I'm about to say this, but I'm starting to understand why they're rejecting it.

Look at the map on this link:

http://www.calgaryherald.com/Calgary...726/story.html

And then consider the fact that we (Calgary) own the yellow portion of land, and that their casino is in the upper right hand corner of the brown portion of land (bypassed by new highway), and that a great deal of their houses are right in the swath (How would I know? I cut through there all the time

) of where the highway is going to be.

Frankly, I'm having a bit of a crisis here. Less than an hour ago I wanted to burn teepees. Now I want to burn wagons. Why are we cutting through their land when we don't need to?

If Glenmore/Sarcee turned south at 37th and then jutted back west a bit and passed over the Elbow, and then came back east and re-aligned with 37th, we'd stay on our land the whole time. We wouldn't have to buy anything from them at all. So why the hell are we paying? To keep the road straighter? F'n eh, if we can deal with the ever winding Deerfoot, one large curve in Stoney Trail should be a breeze.
And if the other concern is the cost of expropriating houses along 37th, well, I'll bet it'll be less than $275 million.

I hereby retract my previous posts in this thread.

I'm thinking that's going to have to be the option now. These negotiations have gone on for so long that the city and province should just drop out of talk with the reserve about the road. The thing I'm concerned with though is wasn't it made a deal that if the casino was made then the ring road would be a go?

I don't think that should be let go lightly if the city tax money was used in building it.

4X4 · 07-01-2009, 01:08 AM

Well, I have to agree, Job. It would seem that we were kinda screwed in this deal. But really, we're coming from the city's point of view. From the Tsuu Tina point of view, they built the casino in the most logical place possible and since we never actually married the ring road to the casino, they won the trade. I have to give them credit for that. And then when I consider that it really makes no sense to spend so much money buying unnecessary land, it makes it less like a trade that they won and more like a foolish bargain on our part.

What's the reason we are so unwilling to construct over the WEaselhead? It's some kind of pristine territory? Well buying land upstream and doing construction will have the same effects as just using what we have to begin with, IMO.

The more I think about it, the more I'm agreeing with the Tsuu Tina. I don't think that I'd sell the land either, if I were the owner. Not when perfectly acceptable alternatives are so obvious.

4X4 · 07-01-2009, 01:15 AM

Of course, now that I think some more, I realize that assuming that Calgary owns all the new purchased land east of the ring road, that $275 million buys alot of new, prime development land. I suppose this is where the city (and province) is losing out. But again, from the Tsuu Tina perspective, that's prime land to them as well, should they ever actually do something with it.

Joborule · 07-01-2009, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4X4

Well, I have to agree, Job. It would seem that we were kinda screwed in this deal. But really, we're coming from the city's point of view. From the Tsuu Tina point of view, they built the casino in the most logical place possible and since we never actually married the ring road to the casino, they won the trade. I have to give them credit for that. And then when I consider that it really makes no sense to spend so much money buying unnecessary land, it makes it less like a trade that they won and more like a foolish bargain on our part.

What's the reason we are so unwilling to construct over the WEaselhead? It's some kind of pristine territory? Well buying land upstream and doing construction will have the same effects as just using what we have to begin with, IMO.

The more I think about it, the more I'm agreeing with the Tsuu Tina. I don't think that I'd sell the land either, if I were the owner. Not when perfectly acceptable alternatives are so obvious.

If I had to guess. It would be the cost and issues that have to be dealt with land space and acquisition for road construction. Our city skeleton network was based on the assumption of the SW ring road being built. Now that's looking to not be the case, the major roads in the SW are going to have to be reworked to work with a new SW ring road location. Also might have to negotiation with the Indian reserve still about dealing with the land space needed for 37st unless their gonna bring down houses, which will just cause bickering with people.

Fuzzy McGillicuddy · 07-01-2009, 01:25 AM

Some of you are wondering why the Weaselhead-37th Street corridor wasn't the original option. That's because the linear track of land won't accommodate the eventual 8 to 16 lane freeway that would have been built with the ring road.

The City has little choice now but to build through the Weaselhead. And don't waste time hoping for another deal to evolve 5 or 10 years from now.

Also, the Tsuu T'ina mislead the City regarding it's intentions when the casino was build. Economic Development Officer Peter Manywounds said a few years ago that the Nation's priority was casino first, ring road second. Now that the ring road has been rejected, the City should carve a trench on 37th Street and cut off access to the casino. Make access to the casino as difficult as possible. If the Nation wants to screw the city, I say screw them.

Fuzzy McGillicuddy · 07-01-2009, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by First Lady

I say we set up a blockade....

...ooops, did I say that out loud.

Seriously, the City needs to reconsider access to the Casino along 37th street. Make access to the casino as difficult as possible. Make it completely undesirable to get to the place.

The City now looks completely and utterly foolish for bending over backwards to allow access to the casino before a ring road deal was in place.

GGG · 07-01-2009, 02:06 AM

I think one of the big issues surrounding the Tsu tina deal is not a city or provincial one. It is the federal Indian act which severly restricts development on Native Reserve land. Every deal between a developer and the band has to be approved by the feds, the land can only be leased not bought or sold, and on and on go the restrictions.

I had read somewhere that the Tsu Tina want to use the ring road deal to get the Indian act changed.

That said why did the province give them the casino license before the road deal was in place. It should have been part of the deal.

Crazy Flamer · 07-01-2009, 02:17 AM

I am currently dealing with some senior members of the Tsuu T'ina Nation. I will ask them what their objection is.

Fuzzy McGillicuddy · 07-01-2009, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GGG

I think one of the big issues surrounding the Tsu tina deal is not a city or provincial one. It is the federal Indian act which severly restricts development on Native Reserve land. Every deal between a developer and the band has to be approved by the feds, the land can only be leased not bought or sold, and on and on go the restrictions.

I had read somewhere that the Tsu Tina want to use the ring road deal to get the Indian act changed.

That said why did the province give them the casino license before the road deal was in place. It should have been part of the deal.

It wouldn't require a change to the Act. Any native band may sell reserve land, but it must be approved by the feds under the jurisdiction of the Department of Indian Affairs.

The City of Calgary really has no jurisdiction in this case. The Province was willing to pay for the land, but it would have been up to Ottawa to approve the sale.