Virgin Fest 09

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by flip

Hey, I didn't say you couldn't like Pearl Jam. I personally don't like their music. I don't hate them the way I do Coldplay or Britney Spears, that is to say at least their music has substance and isn't just pure crap. To me they are like RHCP, I have heard good things about them and I'm sure they make genuine music that is great and people love them but I just think it sounds like crap.

Comparing Pearl Jam to RHCP is like comparing NIN to Marilyn Manson. Oh yeah, I went there.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Comparing Pearl Jam to RHCP is like comparing NIN to Marilyn Manson. Oh yeah, I went there.

More like Tool to Green Day.

[BlackArcher101]

I'm with Flip.

I give this a giant, MEH.

[Deelow]

Pearl Jam is a huge headliner. Put me in the "worth the price of admission alone" camp.

Might have to scrap a trip to Vegas to get to this.

[flip]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Comparing Pearl Jam to RHCP is like comparing NIN to Marilyn Manson. Oh yeah, I went there.

You're right, it is. RHCP was 10x more influential than PJ will ever be on the music industry, just like how NIN is 10x what MM will ever be. PJ is barely a ripple in the water compared to the impact that RHCP had on the music industry.

They are both similar in that neither has done anything worth while in the last 8 years or so.

[Deelow]

Originally Posted by flip

They are both similar in that neither has done anything worth while in the last 8 years or so.

Same can be said for NIN.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Deelow

Same can be said for NIN.

Only from a sales perspective.

Trent Reznor is easily one of the 10 most influential people in music today. Just hardly anyone notices because he doesn't sell records. The man is single handedly reshaping the way music is made, distributed, marketed, presented to fans etc.

PJ has lost all influence from a musical perspective and like 99% of all artists they aren't really doing anything but making music (to be fair neither is RHCP but I still think RHCP were more important in their hayday, PJ was mostly just a part of the grunge movement). NIN/TR are more than just music. Their albums don't sell particularly well and their shows don't sell that much but people in the music industry are taking note of what TR is doing. I'm not going to go into it unless someone asks, I really don't want to have to find all of the links.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by flip

You're right, it is. RHCP was 10x more influential than PJ will ever be on the music industry, just like how NIN is 10x what MM will ever be. PJ is barely a ripple in the water compared to the impact that RHCP had on the music industry.

They are both similar in that neither has done anything worth while in the last 8 years or so.

Disagree. RHCP hasn't done anything memorable since Blood, Sugar.

[flip]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Disagree. RHCP hasn't done anything memorable since Blood, Sugar.

I disagree slightly with that. They have done memorable stuff just nothing groundbreaking.

My point isn't that PJ sucks, just that they aren't as influential on music in their hayday than RHCP was.

Both important bands in the grand scheme of things but I think the legacy of RHCP has been diminished a bit with their recent crappiness, still I think they are more important to the history of music than PJ.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well if you factor in how much PJ alone would cost it's really not that bad.

I'm going to see them in Toronto at the Molson amphitheater late August, and the tickets, for 400 row seating (which is still decent in that venue) are $95 a piece. So you can think about it in terms of getting Billy Talent and Metric thrown in for an extra $40.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by flip

Only from a sales perspective.

Trent Reznor is easily one of the 10 most influential people in music today. Just hardly anyone notices because he doesn't sell records. The man is single handedly reshaping the way music is made, distributed, marketed, presented to fans etc.

PJ has lost all influence from a musical perspective and like 99% of all artists they aren't really doing anything but making music (to be fair neither is RHCP but I still think RHCP were more important in their hayday, PJ was mostly just a part of the grunge movement). NIN/TR are more than just music. Their albums don't sell particularly well and their shows don't sell that much but people in the music industry are taking note of what TR is doing. I'm not going to go into it unless someone asks, I really don't want to have to find all of the links.

Sorry but Pearl Jam has been far more influential at pretty much everything compared to NIN.

They're one of the biggest bands in the world right now even though they've gone the unconventional route every step of the way. They abandoned music videos, fought Ticketmaster, offered up copies of all their live shows, and will release their next album without a label in the US.

[flip]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Sorry but Pearl Jam has been far more influential at pretty much everything compared to NIN.

They're one of the biggest bands in the world right now even though they've gone the unconventional route every step of the way. They abandoned music videos, fought Ticketmaster, offered up copies of all their live shows, and will release their next album without a label in the US.

Abandoned music videos: NIN did that like 5 years ago

Fought Ticketmaster: NIN did that like 5 years ago

Released album without a label: NIN did that like 2 years ago

Offered copies of live shows: NIN did that last year and they released 450GB of unedited HIGH DEFINITION footage

Released album on internet: NIN did that like 2 years ago and in better quality and format than Radiohead or anyone else that was a "pioneer"

Good try though. Say what you want about PJ being more popular, I don't listen to NIN because they are popular but because I like their music. But don't for a second pretend that any of that stuff you listed NIN hasn't already done and moved on. TR is way ahead of everything you listed, whether you like NIN or not TR is a pioneer in the music business.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by flip

Abandoned music videos: NIN did that like 5 years ago

Pearl Jam did it 15 years ago.

Fought Ticketmaster: NIN did that like 5 years ago

Pearl Jam did it 15 years ago. NIN didn't do jack at that point.

Offered copies of live shows: NIN did that last year and they released 450GB of unedited HIGH DEFINITION footage

Pearl Jam's been releasing copies for close to a decade.

Released album on internet: NIN did that like 2 years ago and in better quality and format than Radiohead or anyone else that was a "pioneer"

Pearl Jam has also released most of their albums on vinyl, sometimes before they're available on CD.

Good try though. Say what you want about PJ being more popular, I don't listen to NIN because they are popular but because I like their music. But don't for a second pretend that any of that stuff you listed NIN hasn't already done and moved on. TR is way ahead of everything you listed, whether you like NIN or not TR is a pioneer in the music business.

A lot of the stuff TR has done has been copying Pearl Jam. He's been 10 years behind them in most stuff. So how can he be ahead?

[flip]

You know what you are right.

I guess all of the press I've read that says otherwise was just a bunch of totally biased NIN fans who were lying.

http://www.webbyawards.com/webbys/sp...13.php/#reznor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifmZSC8ca6Q

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...music-industry

http://revision3.com/diggdialogg/trentreznor/

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...ts_of_change/7

http://thisoneisonus.org/

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technol...ut_journalism/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Njuo1...layer_embedded

http://spectrum.ieee.org/jan09/7148/

http://www.pcworld.com/article/15660...urce_band.html

http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/11947

http://movies.apple.com/movies/us/ap...amp;height=360

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53S5wTWBz_c&fmt=18 (this one might be the coolest of the bunch)

http://www.oneclub.org/os/ose/showca...=2008&id=10234

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/m...urrentPage=all

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/sto...e_album_online

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.p.../trents-album/

http://www.fistfulayen.com/blog/?p=205

http://www.wired.com/entertainment/m...znor_radiohead

http://www.cincity2000.com/content/i...051&Itemid=298

and I only went back a year and that was only what I could find in the 20 minutes or so. Not a single one of those articles are about NIN music per se, they are all about TR being at the forefront of the music industry.

[troutman]

Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music > NIN

[ricosuave]

Originally Posted by troutman

Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music > NIN

ouch!

[jayswin]

I've never seen ANYONE as passionate about ANYTHING as Flip is about NIN. It's incredible to sit back and read his thoughts on NIN.

[flip]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I've never seen ANYONE as passionate about ANYTHING as Flip is about NIN. It's incredible to sit back and read his thoughts on NIN.

Like I said this isn't just me defending how awesome NIN music is. I think it is great and I hope everyone else does too but if you don't no biggie. Same with PJ. I don't like them but I'm not saying they suck. This discussion is about the innovations and influences these two bands have had on the music industry. I may sound kind of pissy and argumentative but at the end of the day PJ and TR are both fighting for the same thing: a new paradigm in selling music.

I also don't want this to be too argumentative because me and GTF are basically arguing about stuff that is good for music. Whether PJ or NIN are the most innovative bands of the 21st century is up for debate (I think I'm right of course and so does he) but the point is that the same old stagnant crappy music industry is HOPEFULLY about to come to an end and we can see a new era of ways music is made, distributed etc.

If that means that PJ is on the edge or it is TR that is the innovator is really irrelevant, the point is times are a changing and hopefully we'll see artists more in tune with technology and the internet and as fans we'll all benefit from this. I honestly am not trying to have a pissing contest about who is more innovative (ok maybe a little bit), I just want people to see there is a whole world of different ways to market music. You don't have to just listen to the top 40 songs that Itunes or CJAY tells you to listen to.

[phiten]

I try so see about 50-100 acts per year. NIN is the only act I have walked out of, and I have done it twice.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by phiten

I try so see about 50-100 acts per year. NIN is the only act I have walked out of, and I have done it twice.

And NIN was one of the top 5 shows I've been to.

People like different things.