The Blue Jays: 2009 Season Thread - Page 40 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Gozer · 06-11-2009, 03:39 PM

I admire you for being the sole defender of a fan-base's wrath.

Gozer · 06-11-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EN FUEGO

[Wells] scored 4 runs in the last 2 games. Maybe put him 2nd, Lind 4th, and Hill 5th?

I don't want Wells chasing bad pitches in the #2 spot, and I totally disagree with moving Hill down when he and Scoot are making this offense tick (IMO).
Below is what Mop Up Duty figures, and I like it (except they include a guy we don't have on our roster)

Scutaro
Hill
Lind
Rios
Overbay (sub with Millar vs lefites)
Rolen
Wells
Harper (sub with Bautista vs lefties)
Barajas

http://mopupduty.com/index.php/how-t...er-blues-jays/

EN FUEGO · 06-11-2009, 06:18 PM

Vernon's eye is pretty good usually, just needs to lay off those high fastballs and get some confidence going. He's the best baserunner on the team by a lot IMO, at least he's swiping some bags this year.

Would be nice to have some kind of base stealing threat in the 1 or 2 hole.

Saint Troy · 06-11-2009, 08:51 PM

The Jays are really testing the patience of their fans leaving Wells and Rios in the three/four spots. Are they trying to be uncompetitive?

bluejays · 06-11-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Troy

The Jays are really testing the patience of their fans leaving Wells and Rios in the three/four spots. Are they trying to be uncompetitive?

Rios I can see dropping in the order, but Wells is supposed to be your franchise player. Once he gets going he's obviously very very good. I'm doubtful that happens, but you gotta try everything you can to allow it to happen. Rios a couple years ago was a possible MVP candidate. How did the guy drop this far off? I absolutely love the guy before. Now he just stinks. Hopefully he turns it around and JP can sell him for an authentic 3rd starter (imagine 2 years ago he was almost traded for Lincecum

).

moon · 06-11-2009, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Troy

The Jays are really testing the patience of their fans leaving Wells and Rios in the three/four spots. Are they trying to be uncompetitive?

I know the "anyone would be better line" is likely to be trotted out but realistically who are you going to put there instead? Lind sure, but he had a terrible slump himself earlier and is still pretty young in terms of major league experience.

Other than that Rolen and Overbay have been good at times this year, but Rolen has 0 power and hasn't shown signs that he is going to be above .300 for a whole season. Overbay as well is super hot now but is he going to be good enough over a whole year.

The Jays really don't have anyone who fits into the #4 hitter role on their team which is a big problem for them (and should have been obvious to JP in the offseason.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

Rios a couple years ago was a possible MVP candidate. How did the guy drop this far off? I absolutely love the guy before. Now he just stinks. Hopefully he turns it around and JP can sell him for an authentic 3rd starter (imagine 2 years ago he was almost traded for Lincecum

).

Rios was maybe an MVP candidate for the first half of a season a few years ago but has never been close to it over a full season. I think he may have fooled some fans into thinking he is better than he is by having great starts and making it look easy for him at times.

Saint Troy · 06-11-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

I know the "anyone would be better line" is likely to be trotted out but realistically who are you going to put there instead? Lind sure, but he had a terrible slump himself earlier and is still pretty young in terms of major league experience.

Other than that Rolen and Overbay have been good at times this year, but Rolen has 0 power and hasn't shown signs that he is going to be above .300 for a whole season. Overbay as well is super hot now but is he going to be good enough over a whole year.

The Jays really don't have anyone who fits into the #4 hitter role on their team which is a big problem for them (and should have been obvious to JP in the offseason.)

Rios was maybe an MVP candidate for the first half of a season a few years ago but has never been close to it over a full season. I think he may have fooled some fans into thinking he is better than he is by having great starts and making it look easy for him at times.

You just answered your own question, if the Red Sox can drop Ortiz who has been on a different planet clutch wise compared to Rios and Wells, they can certainly be dropped. The Jays are not putting their best lineup out there on a daily basis, and I don't get it, how do you not put your club in the best position to win?

moon · 06-12-2009, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Troy

You just answered your own question, if the Red Sox can drop Ortiz who has been on a different planet clutch wise compared to Rios and Wells, they can certainly be dropped. The Jays are not putting their best lineup out there on a daily basis, and I don't get it, how do you not put your club in the best position to win?

Answered my own question?

I mentioned one guy, Lind can't hit 3rd and 4th!

Plus I still think there are questions about his ability to fill the clean-up spot as well.

As bad as Wells and Rios have been in Blue Jays fans eyes Ortiz was much, much worse than either of them.

Gozer · 06-12-2009, 01:23 PM

On my way home last night, I've got about a half hour drive - radio is tuned to Fan960 and the Jays game is just finishing. Wilner announces JaysTalk is going across the network for another half hour - hooray!

Cut to Fox.

edit: Sent an email to Kirch, doubt he cares.

Sylvanfan · 06-12-2009, 02:00 PM

Well Lind could probably hit 4th if they wanted, but than they'd need to fill the 5 spot and who's going to do that? Do you really want to put your two most effective left handed hitters back to back in the order? I don't know if this would work but something like
Scutaro
Overbay
Hill
Lind
Rios
Rolen
Wells

as the top 7 maybe could be used, but would a guy like Hill respond to being moved out of the 2 spot into the three spot? Would Overbay still get on base as much hitting 2nd instead of lower in the lineup?

As for the Red Sox comparison, to me it doesn't quite measure up. Ortiz was hitting like .214 with a 300 slugging pct and the Sox had guys like Bay, Lowell, Youkilis to put in front of him. A lineup with Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Bay, Lowell is one of the best top 5 lineups in the bigs.

Gozer · 06-12-2009, 02:08 PM

The Jays lineup tonight, according to Tony Ambrogio's Twitter (via DJF)

Scutaro
Hill
Wells
Lind
Rolen
Rios
Overbay
Barajas
Inglett

Saint Troy · 06-12-2009, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

The Jays lineup tonight, according to Tony Ambrogio's Twitter (via DJF)

Scutaro
Hill
Wells
Lind
Rolen
Rios
Overbay
Barajas
Inglett

Well whattya know, Lind in the clean up spot......finally.

EN FUEGO · 06-12-2009, 05:32 PM

Well........the 3 and 4 hitter are still going down swinging looking bad with RISP. Maybe we should try Chavez as a DH at cleanup?

EN FUEGO · 06-12-2009, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

A lineup with Ellsbury, Pedroia, Youkilis, Bay, Lowell is one of the best top 5 lineups in the bigs.

I know they've all been doing well in recent years, and Lowell always kills the Jays, but that top 5 doesn't scare me much without Ramirez and Ortiz. Also.....Ortiz's average was down below .200 IIRC.

EN FUEGO · 06-12-2009, 06:11 PM

Hallady injured? WTF.

Sylvanfan · 06-12-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EN FUEGO

I know they've all been doing well in recent years, and Lowell always kills the Jays, but that top 5 doesn't scare me much without Ramirez and Ortiz. Also.....Ortiz's average was down below .200 IIRC.

Why Youkilis 1.173 OPS isn't good enough? Bay at over 1.000 for OPS doesnt' either? It's not 2006 anymore....they test for Steroids now and Youkilis and Bay for 2009 are better hitters in those spots.

And for the Jays....hopefully this isn't serious with Halladay.

GirlySports · 06-12-2009, 07:43 PM

KTown · 06-12-2009, 07:50 PM

Why League still pitches in the majors is like wondering why Wells still bats in the top 4.

GirlySports · 06-12-2009, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTown

Why League still pitches in the majors is like wondering why Wells still bats in the top 4.

I think the Jays figured out everyone from the hockey game switched over to watched them so they gave up 5 runs.

EN FUEGO · 06-12-2009, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Why Youkilis 1.173 OPS isn't good enough? Bay at over 1.000 for OPS doesnt' either? It's not 2006 anymore....they test for Steroids now and Youkilis and Bay for 2009 are better hitters in those spots.

And for the Jays....hopefully this isn't serious with Halladay.

All I'm saying is that Ramirez being gone and Ortiz (maybe) having an off year makes the Red Sox less of a threat in my eyes. I like Bay a lot, but he's no Manny Ramirez with or without roids. I used to cringe whenever Manny faced any Jay's pitcher. I'm pretty sure he has more home runs against the Jays than any other player. Again, I'm well aware of the good numbers for the current top 5, I just think it bodes better for the Jays moving forward this year. Don't worry, I'll bump this as soon as that group starts struggling.

Just like I'll be bumping my comments defending Wells any day now.

What's the latest on Halladay....groin?