The Flames are Out in QC - Page 2 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

SparkyOne · 03-12-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QCPuckFan

Not a surprise, unfortunately. Seems like there was a collision of several factors that created this outcome. Marketing efforts by the team were AWFUL (including signing a broadcast contract with a radio station that no one has heard of or listens to). Unfortunately, the team's on-ice performance out of the gate here in the Quad Cities was less than stellar, this season's improvement aside. However, my fellow Quad Citians get to share the blame. It's been well-documented that a lot of fans still couldn't get over this mythical nostalgia around the Mallards. I think it absolutely absurd, but it's a reality. How any real hockey fan could prefer watching beer-league players over bonafide NHL prospects is beyond me. I'm able to turn on my TV now and watch players I've seen in action, in person, just days before (Kyle Turris, Cal Clutterbuck, Carey Price. Not to mention our guys). Call me nuts, I guess...maybe it's because I was an NHL fan long before the game arrived here.

It's sad because this area should be able to support this level in any sport. If Peoria can do it, we should be able. Maybe we're just destined to be lower-level bush-league...if we can somehow lure another team here at all.

I agree with this 100%....however, I can't help but wonder what the success ratio would have been had the team been allowed to stay the Mallards. That seems to be one of the biggest bones of contention.

Though I have a ton of Mallard stuff still hanging in my closet and just added my Flames stuff, I can at least respect the sentiment....people pay thousands of dollars over the years and accumulate all of this stuff supporting the team, and in one brief moment after 13 years, they're not the Mallards anymore. Given the mentality on the rest of the issue, this only added fuel to the fire! People just couldn't identify with the Flames.

Rockford got to stay the IceHogs and Peoria got to stay the Rivermen. I don't think our ownership group, among their many mistakes, realized the impact of the name change. What's ironic is that Calgary let Omaha "pick" their name, and it's been in the Abbotsford paper that, if the team moves there, they will not be the Flames, either. Guess it's just the luck of the draw....

dobbles · 03-12-2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

However, the fact is true... QC attendance is second last in the league... I am sure the QC Management would like to see the attendance better, let alone the Flames management.

If folks won't support a team, the team will move.... That fact is the same for any team NHL or AHL or WHL....

you are absolutely right. we had tons of problems with our situation down here. i think what frustrated most fans was that in stead of lending a helping hand, the calgary folks were in the press fairly regularly doing one of two thngs: hanging out with abbotsford people or badmouthing our locals for their lack of attendance. neither helped the situation and in all likelihood probably hurt any efforts to gain positive spin. i think it was particularly apparent in the local media as they seemed to develop a preference for running the negative doomsday stories and continually ignoring everything else flames related.

i am waiting for things to play out a little more before i really go into my thoughts about this all, but as i said, i think the cgy folks could have handled things better to help give us a fighting chance.

Tilley · 03-12-2009, 09:31 AM

Really an unfortunate situation for all parties. The casual fans aren't going to want to support a team that is gone next year. At least the Knights had been eliminated from the playoffs before word got out about moving to the QC.

Ultimately I think the QC owners got over their heads a little bringing in the team so hastily. They had little time to properly plan and I think it showed in the product. Game operations, promotions, and team management were carry overs from the UHL team and it was noticable every time I went to the QC. It seemed like a UHL game with AHL players. Omaha made the same mistakes during the Knights first season as well.

AHL hockey is a tough sell, even more so when the city has other hockey teams and/or previous successes to compare to. It doesn't matter to me where the team is headed next, however a Canadian city would be better from a fan interest standpoint. In Canada you don't need to worry about getting fans interested in the game. The trick will be to find a large enough city that doesn't already have a CHL team.

QCFAN22 · 03-12-2009, 09:41 AM

Quad-City Times confirms.

http://www.qctimes.com/articles/2009...105.txt?sPos=1

Flame19,289 · 03-12-2009, 11:10 AM

It's a tough time for some of the teams in the AHL, given the economy and some other factors. Here in Upstate NY a few of the teams are struggling....

The Albany River Rats are having difficulty attracting decent crowds. It doesn't help that they have two college teams (RPI and Union College) to compete with.

They have been attempting to lure another AHL team back to Glens Falls, where the Adirondack Red Wings were once a staple of the local culture. It's only 60 miles from Albany, so they are hoping that a rivalry can be rebuilt. But it's a small city (I use the term liberally) with the population of the city and "metro" area coming in at just over 125,000. With a small fan base from which to draw and an older arena that holds only 4800, it seems like a tough sell to me.

Out in Rochester, the AHL's oldest franchise just hasn't been the same since their affiliation with the Sabres ended. That arrangement was beneficial for both the Amerks and the Sabres, but some business dealings prevented the extension of the relationship. Rochester is now affiliated with the Florida Panthers, and attendance has been pretty poor (less than 4,000 per game).

Looking at the attendance figures, I continue to be amazed at how well Hershey draws in the fans. It's such a small (but sweet smelling) town. Harrisburg is only a few minutes away, but it's amazing to me that they can pull in nearly 9,000 per game. Meanwhile, a city as large as Toronto is only drawing 3,500 per game. Apparently size doesn't matter.

Canada 02 · 03-12-2009, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by troutman

Maybe they should play right here in CGY at the Corral. They might sell-out every game, if you make it a pre-condition to getting on wait list for Flames season tickets.

i think it wouldn't be a bad idea to temporarily re-locate to Calgary and have a full year+ for due diligence on a new location, and work out a solid business plan with new partners. I think rushing into another partnership that, on the surface, has a significant financial risk due to the travel subsidy, is doomed to fail again

flambers · 03-12-2009, 11:24 AM

http://communities.canada.com/calgar...s/default.aspx

Attached is a link which has quotes from Ken King....

edn88 · 03-12-2009, 11:33 AM

Mixed feelings about this. I feel for the Fans in QC. Getting attached to a team, and having them leave/fold is never good. Probably doesn't leave a lot of good will towards hockey in QC.

On the other hand, the Flames have to have a stable development system. The upper echalon teams have proven that you need to be able to develop and evaluate your talent. I think that Sutter wants to get a team as close to him as possible so he and his team can work with prospects to make them NHL ready.

Lots of interesting ideas around moving to Abbotsford (which I think could work), Calgary (which I think would work, but would eat into the Hitmen's fanbase) or even finding a way to get Vancouver to let us have Manitoba (in exchange for Abbotsford). Obviously some obstacles for any of these to happen - the economic climate being just one.

PIMking · 03-12-2009, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fotze

Doesn't matter what that says, Sutter's fault, he tried to make it fail (for some reason) and it did, he uses his farm team to vanquish his enemies. King too, biggest evil force in the universe. Two years is two years too long to build an unbeaten championship team.

It's not Sutters fault, Kings fault no one from calgarys fault.

It lies with the QCSV. They were absolute ######s when they bought the team. they did absolutly no ads for them the local media hated them and they were too busy getting drunk with the players instead of trying to make this work.

I wish they would stay but Oh well its not the end of the world. I'm moving to tuscaloosa alabama this summer and the closest team is the huntville havoc SPHL team and thats 2 1/2 hours away hell atlanta is only 3 hrs away and nashville is 4 so I think I'm going to go to some nhl games next year....

Good luck on finding a place to put the team. I just dont think the AHL is going to fall for the abbotsford deal. But if they do It doesn't matter I will folllow the team from my nice warm area in the south!

dobbles · 03-12-2009, 11:49 AM

good link flambers. i still feel abbottsford is a tough sell because of location. though would the ahl really have any other options? i doubt they would want to leave the flames without a team if they deny them their only realistic option.

PIMking · 03-12-2009, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

However, the fact is true... QC attendance is second last in the league... I am sure the QC Management would like to see the attendance better, let alone the Flames management.

If folks won't support a team, the team will move.... That fact is the same for any team NHL or AHL or WHL....

If Peoria and Iowa coupled with milwaukee didn't flub their attendance we wouldn't be 2nd to last.

I have been to iowa were there has been 3 full sections with not a single person in them and probably 1k in the stands when the announced 4k there.

Peoria is the same way. Last time I was down there they had Eric Johnson to sign autographs and maybe 2k in the dirt hole they call an arena but they announced little over 5k. What QC did was they told the truth about attendance.

I'm not saying its good because its not by any means.

I haven't missed a home game all year and been to several road games.
last year I saw over 45 flames games and I'm just going to miss these guys.

SportsJunky · 03-12-2009, 11:52 AM

The good news is that dreadful logo will be gone.

QCPuckFan · 03-12-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SparkyOne

I agree with this 100%....however, I can't help but wonder what the success ratio would have been had the team been allowed to stay the Mallards. That seems to be one of the biggest bones of contention.

I'll concede on this one. I would have been more than happy for them to continue using the Mallards moniker. It wouldn't have mattered to me, and if it would have kept those folks in the fold, so much the better.

Drunk Skunk · 03-12-2009, 12:11 PM

Sounds like it might just be a Wild year next year.

PIMking · 03-12-2009, 12:12 PM

the problem with keeping the mallards name is alot of the stupid fans wouldn't even know that the team was in a different league. With the way they played last year and this year the fans would of just fallen like they have. The sad fact is these people are using that as an excuse to why they didn't go to the games.

Frequitude · 03-12-2009, 12:26 PM

Abbotsford = crazy travel

edit: My source for this photo is sureLoss, from the original thread in the Fire and Ice forum. Link

Cowboy89 · 03-12-2009, 12:32 PM

I don't think there's anything wrong with the individual fans per se other than that there should have been more of them to properly support a hockey team of that calibre. Also I bet a losing AHL team in a Canadian city would do better (Almost any Canadian city above 100,000 people). I mean come on, the ticket prices in QC are cheaper than Hitmen tickets here in Calgary and comparable with prices in such 'large' urban centers like Cranbrook BC, Medicine Hat Alberta, Prince Albert, SK (that oddly enough manage to draw over 2,000 people a night to watch Major Junior hockey at the same or higher price points). Quad Cities is losing the team because, aside from our CP die hard friends, they don't deserve them. Blame Sutter, blame Ken King, blame marketing, blame whoever, blah, blah, blah. The novelty effect alone probably would have supported an AHL team regardless of team performance, for at least two years, in much smaller and poorer Canadian markets.

Yeah_Baby · 03-12-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Abbotsford = crazy travel

Jesus, it's like the Siberia of the AHL. That's crazy.

edn88 · 03-12-2009, 01:07 PM

I vote we upgrade our ECHL team in Vegas to an AHL team (and I am sure that the Flames braintrust is interested in my opinion).

dobbles · 03-12-2009, 01:51 PM

i know a lot of people like to speculate about the canucks taking the abbottsford team, and the flames getting to play in manitoba, so i did see this on the ahl website and just thought i would link to it: http://theahl.com/headlines/index.html?article_id=9687

Quote:

The Manitoba Moose, in conjunction with the NHL’s Vancouver Canucks, today announced that the two teams have renewed their affiliation agreement through the 2011-12 season.

i personally didn't see the swap as very realistic, but then again i still don't think abbottsford is a great idea either.