03-11-2009, 01:44 PM
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#2
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Norm!
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well at least we'll have nicer parades.
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Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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03-11-2009, 01:45 PM
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#3
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CP Pontiff
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: A pasture out by Millarville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bagor
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They surrendered.
Sorry, couldn't resist . . . .
Cowperson
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03-11-2009, 01:45 PM
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#4
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Unfrozen Caveman Lawyer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Crowsnest Pass
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cheese eating surrender monkeys
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03-11-2009, 01:46 PM
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#5
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
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The tactics behind surrender and retreat just got a whole lot stronger!
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03-11-2009, 01:46 PM
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#6
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Not the one...
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Countdown to "NATO has surrendered to" Onion article...
edit: wow, beaten three times!
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There's always two sides to an argument, and it's always a tie.
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03-11-2009, 01:47 PM
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#7
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Violating Copyrights
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Rumour has it that NATO forcefully asked them to come back and they surrendered.
Edit: Haha. Beaten a few times.
France. Psshhhh....
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03-11-2009, 01:49 PM
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#8
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
well at least we'll have nicer parades.
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And this time with less Germans!
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03-11-2009, 02:06 PM
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#9
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Redundant Minister of Redundancy
Self-Banned
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This is very good news. The relationship between the US and Europe must evolve from the senior partner / junior partner relationship that currently exists. If this moves the world closer to an equal US / EU partnership, especially on military matters, I am happy.
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03-11-2009, 02:07 PM
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#10
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Often Thinks About Pickles
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Okotoks
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Big deal.
I had to chuckle a bit over this paragraph...
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Indeed, it has been one of the most active members, supplying troops under allied command in Bosnia, Kosovo and in Afghanistan, where it has suffered significant losses.
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I looked up troop losses in Afghanistan on Wikopedia and as of March 2009, these are the casualty numbers...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coaliti...in_Afghanistan
Coalition deaths in Afghanistan by country
 USA: 588
 UK: 149
 Canada: 111 *
 Germany: 30
 France: 25
 Spain: 25
 Denmark: 23
 Netherlands: 18
 Italy: 13
 Poland: 9
 Romania: 9
 Australia: 8
 Czech Republic: 3
 Estonia: 3
 Norway: 3
 Hungary: 2
 Portugal: 2
 South Korea: 2
 Sweden: 2
 Finland: 1
 Latvia: 1
 Lithuania: 1
TOTAL: 1,028
10 of there 25 casualties came in one action... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uzbin_valley_ambush
Quote:
The Uzbin Valley ambush occurred when ISAF troops were ambushed by Afghan militants in eastern Afghanistan on 19 August 2008. It took place outside the village of Sper Kunday, of the Surobi District of Kabul province and resulted in heavy casualties to the French ISAF contingent.
A NATO report of the incident summarised that the surviving members of the Coalition forces were "lucky to escape" since they were poorly equipped, ill-organised and faced a well-prepared enemy. However, this version was denied by the French governement.
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http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rnational/home
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A NATO report on the incident obtained by The Globe and Mail provides the most in-depth account so far of an attack on Aug. 18 that shook the countries involved in the increasingly bloody campaign. The NATO report, marked “secret,” reveals woefully unprepared French troops surprised by well-armed insurgents in a valley east of Kabul. Ten soldiers were killed, the report concludes, but the other soldiers were lucky to escape without more deaths.
The French did not have enough bullets, radios and other equipment, the report said. The troops were forced to abandon a counterattack when the weapons on their vehicles ran out of ammunition only 90 minutes into a battle that stretched over two days. One French platoon had only a single radio and it was quickly disabled, leaving them unable to call for help. Chillingly, in an indication that the French troopers may have been at the mercy of their attackers, the dead soldiers from that platoon “showed signs of being killed at close range,” the report said.
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These are not the guys you want covering our Canadian boy's backs.
Last edited by Rerun; 03-11-2009 at 02:19 PM.
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03-11-2009, 02:14 PM
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#11
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Franchise Player
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Just looking at those combat losses, and the general's remarks yesterday; we certainly seem to be doing more than our share for a country our size.
Would sure like to see Germany, France and Italy to name 3, step up and provide more soldiers and with less caveats regarding engagement.
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03-11-2009, 02:16 PM
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#12
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: , location, location....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troutman
cheese eating surrender monkeys
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03-11-2009, 02:16 PM
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#13
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A Fiddler Crab
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Chicago
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03-11-2009, 03:12 PM
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#15
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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I know we all like to make fun of France, but the reality is, they ARE one of the more powerful countries in the world when it comes to projecting power (if they wanted to).
For a variety of reasons, they don't get involved in wars any more when they can help it. First, strategically, they are a very difficult country to defend. Getting involved in international disputed isn't the focus of their military. Second, they have had their fair share of disputes with muslim neighbours and have a large muslim minority in their own borders. They have also been dealing with Islamic terrorists for decades. Getting involved deeper in Afghanistan raises serious national security problems for them. Then there was the whole Southeast Asia fiasco... it has made engaging in foreign wars less appealing to the populace.
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03-11-2009, 03:42 PM
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#16
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Redundant Minister of Redundancy
Self-Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeneas
Just looking at those combat losses, and the general's remarks yesterday; we certainly seem to be doing more than our share for a country our size.
Would sure like to see Germany, France and Italy to name 3, step up and provide more soldiers and with less caveats regarding engagement.
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The Germans constitution forbids them from active foreign combat (can't imagine why). So they either have to change their laws or provide moral support in the north or Afghanistan, where it is far safer.
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03-11-2009, 03:44 PM
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#17
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Atomic Nerd
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Calgary
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Isn't Peter McKay up for the job of Ultimate Commander Fearless NATO Director General Extraordinare Leader-One Optimus Prime Ultra Magnus?
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03-11-2009, 04:36 PM
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#18
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
well at least we'll have nicer parades.
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You are indeed a funny man!!! I got a good chuckle out of this post.
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03-11-2009, 05:02 PM
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#20
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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There's widespread belief in Europe that the fighting in Afghanistan has long since turned into yet another US crusade for nothing, and nobody really likes to send people to die in wars they don't believe in.
Also, there's a big difference in mentality. The US keeps talking about how they are sending men to war. The Europeans like to talk about trying to bring about peace. That little semantical issue makes a great deal of difference in the kind of operations each country likes to do.
Also, many European countries like to point out that maybe it's not that they go where there's less trouble, maybe there's less trouble because they're there. (This is very propably true, because if I was an islamist militant, I'd go for Americans first.)
I'm not saying the Europeans are necessarily right, I'm just saying that you can't just add up bodybags and come to conclusions.
That said, yeah, I wouldn't trust the French with a loaded gun either 
Last edited by Itse; 03-11-2009 at 05:04 PM.
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