Bus transit to Airdrie, Cochrane and others coming soon?

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by DESS

There are going to be ways to work around this...there always are.

How about a Calgary version of Checkpoint Charlie?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by DESS

There are going to be ways to work around this...there always are.

Of course there is, it's called the notwithstanding clause, it gets used for traffic issues all the time.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

How about a Calgary version of Checkpoint Charlie?

[mykalberta]

There seems to be an overwhelming sentiment in this thread by some that I should feel sorry for someone who lives in Cochrane, Airdrie, Okotoks, and all the other communities surrounding Calgary. I dont, they made the decision to save on housing, taxes, didnt like big city life and blah blah blah. Well guess what, you chose to live there, dont expect us who are paying more property tax this year to care one bit about your commute to work.

They currently (with the exception of maybe parking) pay 0$ for the maintenance of this city. Why should Calgary do anything at all to make it easier for these people to come to Calgary to work, but live somewhere else. And before you bring out the whole, well they shop in Calgary. They do no more or less shopping in Calgary than a city 100K away will. I lived in a rural town outside Edmonton, and we shopped in Edmonton once or twice a month for Costco/Ikea etc. But we didn abuse the Edmonton city services like someone who lives in Airdire but works in Calgary.

DESS may have some extreme views (vis a vi dogs) but the leaching of bedroom communities off of the major cities in Alberta is getting so ridiculous it makes me sick and it should make everyone else sick as well. And Calgary isnt even 1 or 2 on the list on the cities getting screwed. Here is my list (I have lived in all 3 cities), havent lived much outside of these cities so others might be worse but here goes:

1: Edmonton - Sherwood park still being classified as a Hamlet - enuff said.

2: Red Deer - County of Red Deer not allowing expropriation of lands to the city. As such all the stuf in gasoline alley, none of that revenue goes to the city, it all goes to the county. It didnt use to be as bad, but now there is a theatre there.

3: Calgary - barely on radar compared to the first two, but is in the top 3 because of the traffic headaches caused by these 60 minute commuters.

Also, no one is talking about Toll on the deerfoot or transcanada, but all the major intersections into downtown. City of Calgary residents get it back as a refund at the end of the year would be my idea.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

There seems to be an overwhelming sentiment in this thread by some that I should feel sorry for someone who lives in Cochrane, Airdrie, Okotoks, and all the other communities surrounding Calgary.

I understand your views, but the way I see this is Calgary Transit won't be going to these outlying communities for free- I'm sure the respective towns will have to pay their share of costs. Back before the ~12 cities and towns around Winnipeg joined together in the 70's they all used Winnipeg transit, and my city (City of St. James) used to pay the city of Winnipeg for transit use.

In my mind this is step 1 in getting these communities to start paying for their share of Calgary's infastructure; without having to do something that can be perceived as so cold or a cash grab like toll roads.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

They currently (with the exception of maybe parking) pay 0$ for the maintenance of this city.

Are you sure about that?

"This funding partnership with the provincial and federal governments will assist in delivering improved quality of life for Calgarians," said Mayor Bronconnier. "The additional 40 new CTrain cars will mean more trains, more often and provide more room and comfort for Calgary Transit customers."

http://www.infc.gc.ca/media/news-nou...lgary-eng.html

My federal and provincial tax dollars are going to support your transit system

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

1: Edmonton - Sherwood park still being classified as a Hamlet - enuff said.

And those punks can ride ETS Buses too!

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Also, no one is talking about Toll on the deerfoot or transcanada, but all the major intersections into downtown. City of Calgary residents get it back as a refund at the end of the year would be my idea.

So what your proposing is if I on way across the city on 16th, decided I want to stop at Market Mall to pick something up I'd pay a toll to cruise up Shaganappi?

[DESS]

Originally Posted by Dion

lol that's awesome.

[Yeah_Baby]

Can we add a Dog Free since 2014 sign?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Also, no one is talking about Toll on the deerfoot or transcanada, but all the major intersections into downtown. City of Calgary residents get it back as a refund at the end of the year would be my idea.

It's not a bad idea... If you live within a certain radius, you enter DT for free. If you live beyond, you pay based on your license plate registration.

In Rome they have this system. There are cameras over every street that enters the historic center. Sounds expensive, and perhaps this is not necessarily the way to do it, but I'm starting to warm up to the idea.

Toronto has a system for the express highways. An electronic device in your car that basically proves payment for the toll for that road. Without the device, you get mailed a bill for the toll.

[Yeah_Baby]

nm

[Dion]

Originally Posted by 4X4

It's not a bad idea... If you live within a certain radius, you enter DT for free. If you live beyond, you pay based on your license plate registration.

In Rome they have this system. There are cameras over every street that enters the historic center. Sounds expensive, and perhaps this is not necessarily the way to do it, but I'm starting to warm up to the idea.

Toronto has a system for the express highways. An electronic device in your car that basically proves payment for the toll for that road. Without the device, you get mailed a bill for the toll.

If we're going to go the toll road system i'd like my portion of federal and provincial infrastructure tax money to be directed to the town i live in as opposed to Calgary. I would hate to pay a toll where the money would be going towards something i've already made a contribution to.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Dion

If we're going to go the toll road system i'd like my portion of federal and provincial infrastructure tax money to be directed to the town i live in as opposed to Calgary. I would hate to pay a toll where the money would be going towards something i've already made a contribution to.

I thought that was already the case. Wasn't there a stink in the fall when Ed announced the infastructure funding that the rest of the province outside of Calgary and Edmonton were getting a higher share when calculated per capita?

[valo403]

Originally Posted by 4X4

It's not a bad idea... If you live within a certain radius, you enter DT for free. If you live beyond, you pay based on your license plate registration.

In Rome they have this system. There are cameras over every street that enters the historic center. Sounds expensive, and perhaps this is not necessarily the way to do it, but I'm starting to warm up to the idea.

Toronto has a system for the express highways. An electronic device in your car that basically proves payment for the toll for that road. Without the device, you get mailed a bill for the toll.

A congestion tax, which is what you're referring to in Rome, isn't a bad idea. The issue is the availability of suitable alternative forms of transportation. It would be politically impossible to impose a tax on vehicles entering downtown without providing substantially increased transit options. The cities in which such a system operates effectively are almost always home to substantial public transport systems (London, Rome).

The toll road system, like that in Toronto, is a good idea for high volume thoroughfares especially. Most major world cities feature at least some toll roads, if not many. In many cases it's the only means to get new developments paid for, there are actually a number of large institutional investors who have divisions devoted to the development of tollways that they then receive returns from over the years. A toll system utilizing the electronic passes that most use, allowing cars to pass through with little delay, would be ideal for Deerfoot. The issue that the OP seems to be unable to grasp is that you can't implement a scheme that selectively targets individuals to pay the toll, user tolls on a public roadway are an all or nothing affair.

[DESS]

Originally Posted by valo403

A congestion tax, which is what you're referring to in Rome, isn't a bad idea. The issue is the availability of suitable alternative forms of transportation. It would be politically impossible to impose a tax on vehicles entering downtown without providing substantially increased transit options. The cities in which such a system operates effectively are almost always home to substantial public transport systems (London, Rome).

The toll road system, like that in Toronto, is a good idea for high volume thoroughfares especially. Most major world cities feature at least some toll roads, if not many. In many cases it's the only means to get new developments paid for, there are actually a number of large institutional investors who have divisions devoted to the development of tollways that they then receive returns from over the years. A toll system utilizing the electronic passes that most use, allowing cars to pass through with little delay, would be ideal for Deerfoot. The issue that the OP seems to be unable to grasp is that you can't implement a scheme that selectively targets individuals to pay the toll, user tolls on a public roadway are an all or nothing affair.

A. I'm not the OP.
B. Why can't you selectively target individuals? Is this a law of nature?

When I worked at McDonald's when I was 15 I only paid 50% of what our regular customers paid for anything on the menu. One group of people (employees) paid less than another group of people (customers).

How about Shopper's Drug Mart. They offer discounts to seniors on select days that the rest of us aren't entitled to.

There is precedent all around us for what I'm proposing. Some of you guys have set your sights very low as to what is and what is not possible.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by DESS

A. I'm not the OP.
B. Why can't you selectively target individuals? Is this a law of nature?

When I worked at McDonald's when I was 15 I only paid 50% of what our regular customers paid for anything on the menu. One group of people (employees) paid less than another group of people (customers).

How about Shopper's Drug Mart. They offer discounts to seniors on select days that the rest of us aren't entitled to.

There is precedent all around us for what I'm proposing. Some of you guys have set your sights very low as to what is and what is not possible.

My mistake on the OP, good of you to pick up that I'm obviously talking about your flawed plan.

As to your second point, it's so completely out of whack I'm not really sure where to start. Employee discounts at McDonald's and senior days at shoppers drug mart are not even remotely comparable to the discriminate taxing of individuals for access to public transportation. How you managed to convince yourself that those were at all relevant comparisons is actually astounding, I feel like I just listened to you compare a story about a puppy losing its way to the industrial revolution.

A toll imposed by the government implicates the Canadian charter and constitution, on that basis alone your proposal fails, not to mention the myriad of other glaring problems. McDonalds discounts don't have that issue, see how that works?

Seriously, you need to actually do a tiny bit of research before you go spouting off to people about what is possible. And if you're going to claim you still have research to do, as you have done before, maybe it would be wise to not dismiss those who are essentially doing the research for you.

[DESS]

Yes yes you and others have been touting this unconstitutional business for a few pages now. My reply is there will be a fairly simple work around for that, if it even is unconstitutional.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by DESS

Yes yes you and others have been touting this unconstitutional business for a few pages now. My reply is there will be a fairly simple work around for that, if it even is unconstitutional.

And that would be what exactly????

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by DESS

Money from the tolls.

Are you really dumb enough to believe that the provincial government would toll a provincial highway and then give Calgary the money?

I realize your proposals are already beyond ridiculous, but you are shredding all plausability from your arguments.

So, the question remains unanswered: what's the benefit to Calgarians? You already know that the money isn't going to the city, and you already know that gridlock is overwhelmingly caused by drivers from the edges of the city itself, not the suburbs.