There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.

[Daradon]

^^^ Man oh man, I'm almost getting excited about this campaign because of the huge stink it's creating.

I can't believe it's such a news item! Was kinda of an 'eh' for me when I first heard about it.

[FanIn80]

All I know is my God is better than your God... and if you don't agree with me, I'll bomb you and steal your oil.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Dion

I heard on the radio that members of Calgary's transit union are objecting to the signs being on buses. Sounds like some drivers don't want to be driving buses that have these ads.

Graduates of the Allan Watt School Of Public Relations I see.

I don't like the second half of the message -- the "stop worrying and enjoy your life" part. The implication being that believers aren't enjoying their lives. To me it's no different than the "atheists are the angriest people in the world" cliche.

I really do like the fuss this is causing though.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Graduates of the Allan Watt School Of Public Relations I see.

I don't like the second half of the message -- the "stop worrying and enjoy your life" part. The implication being that believers aren't enjoying their lives. To me it's no different than the "atheists are the angriest people in the world" cliche.

I really do like the fuss this is causing though.

I agree with what you are saying. It paints an unfair view of thiests like myself. I'm enjoying life and have absolutely no worries and i'm sure many others are too.

One had to know that there would be some conflict with these ads. It only adds more gas to the fire and gives the ads/signs more press. In the end i suspect drivers who are against those ads will not have to drive buses that contain them.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by arloiginla

It seems like a double standard to say when Christians are out witnessing and sharing their beliefs with others and trying to convert them. But if there is a God, and the possibility of hell is a real one, then obviously its easy to justify trying to convert otheres - you don't want to see them suffer eternal damnation.

But if there is no God, then what does it matter what others think? We don't push our opinions on our favourite ice cream. In an atheistic world then, the topic of religion has - or at least should have - exactly the same relevance.

Ice cream can't wage war on me, ice cream can't force children to learn creationism in public schools

Its simple really, because IF religion was what its like for most moderates, traditions and social groups that benefit their lives; we'd all be very quiet Atheists.

But its not, simply for the fact Religion affects everything. A few examples, stem cell research, abortion rights, gay rights, creationism in classrooms, Islam trying to stifle free speech, sharia law, cults that destroy lives, Jihad, suicide bombers, absolutism, Religious conflict/war.

If Christians feel a duty to save people from hellfire, as you say, maybe you can see in the Atheistic worldview we seek to counteract the the bad which religion does in the world today.

Moderates and 'soft Religious' people make up many of my friends and even some relatives. But they aren't the ones in Jesus camp teaching kids that its a war against secularists, they aren't the ones promoting Jihad to their kids, they aren't the ones pushing to get Sharia law in affect for their people in western countries like the UK and Canada.

Dion dude, I'm not hating on you, nor do I think you and your family are bad because you have faith. You are one of the good guys, since your not radicalized, your not absolutist, your not irrational.

When we go after Religion, its not to say all of it is evil and bad. Yeah no lie most of us would prefer the world to evolve into a less religious place, but we'd be thrilled to see it move away from fundy and absolutist zeal which we are sadly facing with the growth of Islam into the west and the Evangelical movement in the US which seeks to move us backwards in time.

I know Religion has had the "Its rude to argue Religion" label for a long time, but it deserves the same criticism as any political ideology or anything we debate as matter of discourse in the modern world.

There are very few issues facing us today in this world that Religion doesn't play a important role in, bad or good.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Graduates of the Allan Watt School Of Public Relations I see.

I don't like the second half of the message -- the "stop worrying and enjoy your life" part. The implication being that believers aren't enjoying their lives. To me it's no different than the "atheists are the angriest people in the world" cliche.

I think what they are getting at there is that many Christians (and Muslims, etc) spend a large portion of their lives following behaviours that do not bring joy to their lives but they do it because they believe it is what God wants and they are worried that if they don't do these behaviours then they will not get into heaven, but rather burn in the firey bowels of hell.

Mormons and Muslims don't drink alcohol. Not because it wouldn't enhance their lives and bring them joy, but rather because they are worried about the effects on the afterlife.

Some go to noon church services even though they are going to miss their football team's kickoff. Some give more than they can afford to the church. Some give up their favorite foods over Lent, or Muslims give up eating during the day altogether during Ramadan. To some that worry about the fate of their souls is actually quite the destructive force. Sometimes that worry presents itself in the form of depression, others as radicalism.

In any case, I don't think the "stop worrying and enjoy your life" was meant to stereotype theists, but rather point out the freedom you get from being an atheist.

-=-=-=-=-

On the flip side though, I, as an atheist, don't find it very liberating. When forced to mold your philosophy of life based on reason, I found myself being a teetotaling, vegetarian environmentalist (yes, the lack of owning a CO2 emitter during the latest Ottawa bus strike has been loads of fun). There is a responsibility that comes with not having your morals and ethics handed to you in a book. For the most part I'm a utilitarian, but in many cases I worry that I didn't make the right choice - that I weighed the options incorrectly.

Though, as a man, I have never had an abortion... but I'll use that as an example. Were a woman to be in the situation of having little income and few around to support her, she would have to weigh whether it was the right thing to destroy a potential human life vs the ability to take care of herself and the child. The emotional burden of going through a pregnancy alone vs the joy a child could bring to your life. You have to weigh so many variables - it's so much easier to have a book tell you all the answers to life.

[Finny61]

Two thoughts come to mind - the western world religions (at least mine) teach selflessness in a selfish world first and foremost. The eastern religious structure is much more radical and I'm referring to sects in Islam. I think Athiests honestly might eat their words if Islam sets a foothold in North America because as we become more globalized it will only get worse, and instead of someone being preachy by putting up a sign or knocking on your door it'll be someone setting off a suicide bomb in your town and taking innocent lives with it.

[Devils'Advocate]

So you are suggesting that atheists should shut up because Muslim terrorists are going to kill us?

Also, that seems like quite the racist thing to suggest. I have many Muslim co-workers, all of them know that I am an athiest, and not a single one has ever blown me up.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Finny61

Two thoughts come to mind - the western world religions (at least mine) teach selflessness in a selfish world first and foremost. The eastern religious structure is much more radical and I'm referring to sects in Islam. I think Athiests honestly might eat their words if Islam sets a foothold in North America because as we become more globalized it will only get worse, and instead of someone being preachy by putting up a sign or knocking on your door it'll be someone setting off a suicide bomb in your town and taking innocent lives with it.

WOA...that sounds like the EXACT reason we need to scream from the hilltops! I hope wedont ever have to see crap like that here in Canada.

[Finny61]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

So you are suggesting that atheists should shut up because Muslim terrorists are going to kill us?

Also, that seems like quite the racist thing to suggest. I have many Muslim co-workers, all of them know that I am an athiest, and not a single one has ever blown me up.

hey sport read my post, I am meaning certain sects! Not all Muslims are in the same basket. There are variances in all the major religious pillars in the world. Muslims I know personally.. condemn the actions of those who take lives like that.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Finny61

hey sport read my post, I am meaning certain sects! Not all Muslims are in the same basket. There are variances in all the major religious pillars in the world. Muslims I know personally.. condemn the actions of those who take lives like that.

I'm originally from Iceland, one of the more secular countries in the world; albeit we baptise, have big confirmations, etc.. Anyhoo, I have a number of friends and relatives in the UK and Islam is a BIG issue for them.

Sharia is pushing to become recognized to deal with internal muslim issues, and Saudi Arabia is pushing the UN to specially proclaim criticism of Islam is not a right.

Of my list of concerns, North American Christians is like 20% while Islam worries me 80%. Its more about the absolutism, the fact the vast majority of the Islamic nations are Theocracy's and that the Koran for anyone who's read the English translation is repeatedly and confidently clear on non believers of the Islamic faith and the duty of each follower to deal with those.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Finny61

Two thoughts come to mind - the western world religions (at least mine) teach selflessness in a selfish world first and foremost. The eastern religious structure is much more radical and I'm referring to sects in Islam. I think Athiests honestly might eat their words if Islam sets a foothold in North America because as we become more globalized it will only get worse, and instead of someone being preachy by putting up a sign or knocking on your door it'll be someone setting off a suicide bomb in your town and taking innocent lives with it.

I was actually totally with you on the first line, about religions(not so much Western, just in general) teaching selflessness, which is one of the things I like about religion. And then you proceed to complete drive off the cliff with your xenophobic tirade.

Even though I dont believe in the Christian God per se, I still like the idea of religion as a way to better oneself(if this helps them). I grew up Catholic and even though I dont believe in the "bedtime stories" anymore, I still like the message it preaches and the values it instills. However, the huge problem I have with religion is the extreme xenophobia that seems to come with it with many people, and you are definitely one of those people. It really is a shame, and its one of the reasons I think religion needs to go away, despite the fondness I have for alot of it. Way too many hardcores in different religions ruin it for everybody.

[Finny61]

LOL I'm hardcore? well you certainly don't know me but nice try. There is nothing hardcore about my post.

[flylock shox]

This thread got weird.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Finny61

The eastern religious structure is much more radical and I'm referring to sects in Islam.

Islam is no more "eastern" than Judaism or Christianity. It has a lot more in common with both those religions than any "eastern" way like Buddhism or Hinduism.

[photon]

I would say that suicide bombings have less to do with religion and more to do with social, political, and economic conditions that the bombers live in. But that's just a WAG on my part.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by photon

I would say that suicide bombings have less to do with religion and more to do with social, political, and economic conditions that the bombers live in. But that's just a WAG on my part.

Those help immensely, but would they kill themselves if they didn't think Martyrdom wasn't a special honour and that they and their family would get a special place in heaven?

I'd recommend this 3 part video, its immensely informative on this.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=uuipt15s08c

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Finny61

LOL I'm hardcore? well you certainly don't know me but nice try. There is nothing hardcore about my post.

"Western religion= good and mainstream, Eastern religion= radical. If this weirdo Eastern religion is allowed to come here we'll have suicide bombers at our door." Xenophobia, straight up.

btw I never said you were hardcore. I said its the hardcores ruining it.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

"Western religion= good and mainstream, Eastern religion= radical. If this weirdo Eastern religion is allowed to come here we'll have suicide bombers at our door." Xenophobia, straight up.

btw I never said you were hardcore. I said its the hardcore ruining it.

And its the moderates who are aplogetic for the hardcores, they are never vocal on the hardcore and in all these 'atheist' debates they defend faith and never debate the harm we see in what it does to a significant portion of the followers.

I guess thats the frustrating thing, while I know moderates are not the problem, they are certainly not the ones outspoken against the more zealot of their faith.

[Finny61]

I'm not apolgetic to hardcore evangelists in Christianity. There is criticism and there is defiance, I don't tolerate the actions of some brethren but because of that I wouldn't turn away from the true meanings and messages of my faith.