Canadian aid agency blow 330 bucks on Tequila shots

[HOZ]

Ok, it was listed as "incidentals" but what else could it be?

But 40K on airfare alone seems a tad high.....


Government expense reports say Margaret Biggs, president of the Canadian International Development Agency, paid $13,856.46 just for airfare to the Ghana conference last September. Accommodation cost $1,750.92.


The records indicate Biggs was in Ghana from Aug. 28 to Sept. 5 for a meeting scheduled Sept. 2-4. She also visited field projects, says an emailed response from agency spokeswoman Jo-Ann Purcell.


Another $805.44 was claimed for expenses described only as "other." Purcell clarified that $475 of that total was for medical shots, while another $330.44 was for "incidentals."

[Devils'Advocate]

"Look, when an official goes and works for the government, they're not working for the private sector. And they shouldn't expect to be able to enjoy all of the benefits that some private-sector executives experience. Might that suck? Maybe. But it's not their money. It's our money."

Here is where I get confused. If the CEO of Exxon gouges you at the pumps and then uses that money to fly himself first class to a conference, he is not "spending YOUR money"? But if you pay taxes for such things as police services and at a police chiefs meeting they order bagels, then it is "wasting your money"? In either situation money is coming from your pocket to pay for a product and/or service only to be wasted frivilously.

Am I upset with the waste described above? Absolutely. Hell, the ONLY flight the government has ever paid for me, I flew stand-by. However, I just don't get the difference in "wasting your money". I mean, those AIG mangers that took that golf vacation - their excuse was that they had been planning on paying for it off their investors dime rather than the taxpayers dime. Makes no difference to me. I'm equally appalled that people would think it okay to go on a golf vacation on ANYBODY'S dime but their own.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Here is where I get confused. If the CEO of Exxon gouges you at the pumps and then uses that money to fly himself first class to a conference, he is not "spending YOUR money"? But if you pay taxes for such things as police services and at a police chiefs meeting they order bagels, then it is "wasting your money"? In either situation money is coming from your pocket to pay for a product and/or service only to be wasted frivilously.

Am I upset with the waste described above? Absolutely. Hell, the ONLY flight the government has ever paid for me, I flew stand-by. However, I just don't get the difference in "wasting your money". I mean, those AIG mangers that took that golf vacation - their excuse was that they had been planning on paying for it off their investors dime rather than the taxpayers dime. Makes no difference to me. I'm equally appalled that people would think it okay to go on a golf vacation on ANYBODY'S dime but their own.

If you don't want to buy gas, Exxon can't send guys with guns to take you to jail. Not so with taxes...

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by peter12

If you don't want to buy gas, Exxon can't send guys with guns to take you to jail. Not so with taxes...

During the last Olympics it was suggested that there should be a base taxes that everyone pays into and "optional taxes" for things such as Olympic training. So in such a case, since the former is mandatory and the latter optional, money wasted from Olympic training program would not be "wasting our money". By your logic, it is the choice to pay that determines whether it is "our" money or not?

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Ok, it was listed as "incidentals" but what else could it be?

My first thought is bribes not booze. It's an African country and she's trying to get medical supplies to people and it's just as likely she'd have to grease some wheels here and there as it is she was paying for belly shooters.

Not knowing what the government rules are around expenses I can't comment on the detail she needs or doesn't need to provide. It does appear a single line item it ok otherwise she wouldn't have been able to would she?

Let's face it, if we were all given the option of traveling in coach or business/1st what would we pick? And have all of us been completely 100% pure on our expenses? Likely there is something we've all expensed which does not look legit or if someone dug a little deeper would raise an eyebrow. Anyone submitted an expense from the "FM Restaurant" or similar?

[MaxPower]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

During the last Olympics it was suggested that there should be a base taxes that everyone pays into and "optional taxes" for things such as Olympic training. So in such a case, since the former is mandatory and the latter optional, money wasted from Olympic training program would not be "wasting our money". By your logic, it is the choice to pay that determines whether it is "our" money or not?

It's not the choice, it's the fact that you are exchange the money for a product.

If you exchange YOUR money for something like a tank of gas, it's no longer your money. Why would you have any say over the money you gave a company to purchase their product?

Taxes are basically supposed to be spent on our behalf to provide us with government services etc, so when it's not spent on something that benefits us, I would consider that somewhat wasteful.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by HOZ

Ok, it was listed as "incidentals" but what else could it be?

But 40K on airfare alone seems a tad high.....


Government expense reports say Margaret Biggs, president of the Canadian International Development Agency, paid $13,856.46 just for airfare to the Ghana conference last September. Accommodation cost $1,750.92.


The records indicate Biggs was in Ghana from Aug. 28 to Sept. 5 for a meeting scheduled Sept. 2-4. She also visited field projects, says an emailed response from agency spokeswoman Jo-Ann Purcell.


Another $805.44 was claimed for expenses described only as "other." Purcell clarified that $475 of that total was for medical shots, while another $330.44 was for "incidentals."

I often wonder why people do reporting like this. I assume it is to bring to light the wasteful spending of our government bureaucrats when they should have not been so wasteful. However in 20 mins, I have figured out that I don't mind the amount that was spent, since I couldn't find anything that was significantly cheaper.

http://www.hotels.com.gh/

I only considered hotels on that link that listed in US dollars, but hotel cost in Ghana for a Single Room in a 3 or 4 star hotel - $100-250 per night. Assuming they didn't share rooms, that puts the potential bill for 3 people for 7 days at $2,100 to $5,250. So I am guessing they stayed in a 2 star hotel. Certainly not an 'extravagance' I would fault anyone for.

I am quite happy with $1,750.92.

As for Airfare, I could not locate any flights from Ottawa to Ghana on any site, so I searched for flights to Lagos ( in Nigeria, right beside Ghana), and there was a very limited choice, but I found some on Cheap Airfare | Cheap Flights from Jan 30 to Feb 6 the price for a flight for a single person business class is $10127.00 ( CDN I assume). There was no first class available, and that price does not include taxes etc So if you assume that you could actually find a flight to Ghana, that it would be somewhere in that ballpark (give or take) of $31,000 for 3 people. Unless they needed to fly to Lagos with a major carrier then book a small charter to get to Ghana, in which case I would consider the 40k a pretty resonable price.

Edit: After review that airfare site once more, the final airfare is somewhere between $11031.65 and $11857.45 per person when you factor in taxes. Putting the final price tag almost squarely on $35,000 for airfare.

Bottom line is, if someone from CIDA decided she needed to go to Ghana, this is pretty much the bill that should be expected.

[mykalberta]

13K for buisness class to Ghana isnt out the ordinary if she purchased a fully refundable ticket using Air Canada and Lufthansa.

[Ozy_Flame]

Any flight that seems to have a higher-than-usual price tag to the average taxpayer is going to seem like an outrage. Especially in times like this.

And where did the author get $1400 plus taxes to Ghana?? I highly doubt it's that cheap.

Don't forget people, that tax dollars are provided to government departments with a particular budget; the department only has so many dollars to spend, and if they chose to send a bureaucrat to Ghana for a conference. It's extremely questionable to have to fly first-class, but there's no way the Feds would allow a department to request more money if these are the kinds of expenses they're harbouring. It's their own problem to deal with.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

During the last Olympics it was suggested that there should be a base taxes that everyone pays into and "optional taxes" for things such as Olympic training. So in such a case, since the former is mandatory and the latter optional, money wasted from Olympic training program would not be "wasting our money". By your logic, it is the choice to pay that determines whether it is "our" money or not?

It's more the coercion involved in taxation. You HAVE to give them the money, regardless of how they are going to spend it.

I totally agree with optional taxation. In fact, instead of tax forms, the government should send you a bill every year showing exactly where your tax dollars are going.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Here is where I get confused. If the CEO of Exxon gouges you at the pumps and then uses that money to fly himself first class to a conference, he is not "spending YOUR money"? But if you pay taxes for such things as police services and at a police chiefs meeting they order bagels, then it is "wasting your money"? In either situation money is coming from your pocket to pay for a product and/or service only to be wasted frivilously.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying in this thread, but I think there is one key difference between what oil execs do and what government bureaucrats do: the oil industry operates more or less on a free market system: what you pay at the pump is based on the price point that the oil producers have decided upon for maximum profit. The price has nothing to do with how that money is spent. The government, on the other hand, is socially obligated to keep taxes low and to get the maximum value from them. If a particular agency is spending frivolously, it doesn't make your taxes go up but it does take funds away from other organization and contributes to a greater national deficit.
That said, I don't think there was frivolous spending here; based on Rathji's research, the numbers seem completely in line with what they should be.

[Agamemnon]

Unless we know the incidental money was actually spent on tequila shots, then the thread title is pretty much an outright lie. Strange.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Unless we know the incidental money was actually spent on tequila shots, then the thread title is pretty much an outright lie. Strange.

Yeah, there is no mention of tequila shots in the article. I was so hoping.

I wonder if the thread starter may have an ax to grind?

[FlamingLonghorn]

Also, I am sure the gov't has a deal with airlines that they get a certain amount of money back at the end of the year for spending with them. I know my company does. That's why when I book a flight with our company's travel site the prices are always higher than other sites.

[MelBridgeman]

Well at least she knows how to party...

[SinceDay1]

I'm a federal gov't employee. Incidental travel expenses are part of the daily per diem if you incur an overnite stay while in travel status. They are meant to cover off out-of-pocket expenses, long distance phone calls home, etc. Incidentals for travel in Ghana are $30.08 per day. Because they are part of the per diem they are paid regardless. Any incidental expenses above the $30.08 daily amount must be supported by receipts.

Now if you'll excuse me, I must get back to putting my feet up on my desk while enjoying a cuban cigar that I'll light with a $100 bill.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by SinceDay1

I'm a federal gov't employee. Incidental travel expenses are part of the daily per diem if you incur an overnite stay while in travel status. They are meant to cover off out-of-pocket expenses, long distance phone calls home, etc. Incidentals for travel in Ghana are $30.08 per day. Because they are part of the per diem they are paid regardless. Any incidental expenses above the $30.08 daily amount must be supported by receipts.

Now if you'll excuse me, I must get back to putting my feet up on my desk while enjoying a cuban cigar that I'll light with a $100 bill.

Abuse of budgets by department heads is a long hallmark of bureaucracy. Your per diem is probably smaller than hers.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by SinceDay1

Now if you'll excuse me, I must get back to putting my feet up on my desk while enjoying a cuban cigar that I'll light with a $100 bill.

I don't doubt it!!!!!

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by SinceDay1

Now if you'll excuse me, I must get back to putting my feet up on my desk while enjoying a cuban cigar that I'll light with a $100 bill.

You too hey

[HOZ]

Paint me "Not surprised" that some people missed the point and focussed on the joke. Therefore I will repeat the point of the threaed....

2 people spent 40,000 dollars on first class tickets ALONE. This extravagance on public money and completely unnecessary. They were NOT trying to get medical supplies or whatever to the poor and needy of Africa....

They were attending a conference having a party.