Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Rerun

You are wrong...

As per Elections Canada Website...


Frankly, I don't think $1,100 buys you much influence.

But if you're rich and I'm poor, and $1,100 dollars to you is the equivalent of $110 to me, then you're in a position to buy 10 times as much influence as I am.

Although you are quite right in the sense that this cap significantly limits the ability of the wealthy to dominate democracy through better funding of political parties.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think it buys a lot of influence when you multiply it by the number of people who can afford to give that much and then consider that some parties attract a lot more of those kinds of people.

"those kinds of people"? Do you mean rich people? Are you saying that the Liberal party doesn't attract rich people? LOL

Sure there are people of influence in the Conservative party... just like there is in every party. But, its not because they are rich and they are throwing a lot of $$$ in the Conservative pot.


In the last year the Conservative party received approximately 175,000 donations and the average donation was $115.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...115?hub=Canada

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by calculoso

If this was true, why is there a "minimum percentage of votes" needed to get this funding?

I can only imagine that's a safeguard against every loony with a tin-hat and an axe to grind getting part of your $1.95.

[Bobblehead]

Interesting seeing the world (and national) views.

http://news.google.ca/news?ie=UTF-8&...77800484&hl=en


China

Canadian are deeply divided in their opinions about the political storm that has waged over the past week, with new polls showing deepening regional tension especially between the west and the east.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...t_10463597.htm

Scotland

Opposition parties have vowed to oust Prime Minister Stephen Harper's government next month after he shut down parliament to avoid almost certain defeat in an imminent confidence vote.

http://news.scotsman.com/world/Canad...ver.4765513.jp

Australia

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper has averted the fall of his conservative minority Government by engineering the suspension of Parliament.

http://www.theage.com.au/world/canad...1205-6sii.html

CNN.com International

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper said Thursday that Canada's governor general has allowed him to suspend Parliament, postponing a no-confidence vote from his opponents that he was likely to lose.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/am...f=mpstoryemail

Seattle Times

The normally placid halls of Canada's Parliament were buzzing Thursday after Prime Minister Stephen Harper shut down the lawmaking body until Jan. 26, seeking to forestall a no-confidence vote he was sure to lose and, possibly, provoking a constitutional crisis.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm..._canada05.html

LA Times

Reporting from New York -- Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper on Thursday secured permission for a rare suspension of Parliament, a move that allows him to avoid an imminent vote that would have toppled his Conservative government, elected just two months ago.

But the narrow escape from a crisis that was largely self- inflicted has badly scarred a prime minister already widely regarded as a bully, and reawakened a national unity crisis in a country where regional grievances are sometimes dormant but easily stirred.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,3038908.story

Jamaica

Canadians, and Stephen Harper's Conservatives in particular, have to be careful that they do not talk their country into a genuine, and deep, political crisis that leads to long-term instability. What is being faced now is really uncertainty, that is being frothed into something else.

http://www.jamaica-gleaner.com/glean...cleisure1.html

India

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper Thursday managed to buy time for his government which faces ouster by a combined opposition in a vote of confidence.

Harper managed to convince Governor-General Michaelle Jean to prorogue parliament till Jan 26, enabling his Conservative Party government to avoid a defeat in a vote of confidence next week.

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus...0812050923.htm

Britain (The Guardian)

Canada's prime minister managed to head off the fall of his conservative minority government and cling to power yesterday after engineering the suspension of parliament.

The extraordinary decision by Canada's governor general, Michaëlle Jean, to grant Stephen Harper's request to suspend parliament saved him from a confidence vote set for Monday that he was almost certain to lose. It also spares Canadians from going to the polls again, just weeks after elections in October.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008...spended-canada

BBC

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper has won a bid to suspend parliament, blocking an opposition attempt to topple his minority government.

The governor general agreed to Mr Harper's request, unprecedented in the country, after talks.

If the request had been rejected, he would have had to step down or face a confidence vote he was sure to lose.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7765206.stm

Just kind of interesting seeing the story through a different lens.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

But if you're rich and I'm poor, and $1,100 dollars to you is the equivalent of $110 to me, then you're in a position to buy 10 times as much influence as I am.

I agree with you saying that to a poor person $110 means just as much, or probably even more, than $1100 does to a wealthy person.

But you're dreaming if you think that $1100 buys much influence. $1100 in the world of politics is chump change.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Rerun

I agree with you saying that to a poor person $110 means just as much, or probably even more, than $1100 does to a wealthy person.

But you're dreaming if you think that $1100 buys much influence. $1100 in the world of politics is chump change.

Of course. But it's the collective effect of those contributions that amounts to more than that.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Just kind of interesting seeing the story through a different lens.

It's also nice to read articles from 3rd party perspectives and note that they don't see the coalition attempts as a "coup".

I like the Chinese one though, and how they try to play up the regionalism issue like they are ones to talk...

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Rerun

"those kinds of people"? Do you mean rich people? Are you saying that the Liberal party doesn't attract rich people? LOL

Yeah, that's exactly what I said... no wait a second, I didn't even mention the Liberal Party. LOL

[Flame On]

My fave by Jamaica:

What is being faced now is really uncertainty, that is being frothed into something else.

Bloody politicians, always trying to froth us!

[calculoso]

Speaking of the Liberals... Step 1 in the merging of the Liberal and NDP parties?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...tories&s_name=

Liberal MP Bob Rae will undertake a national campaign to sell the new Grit-NDP coalition, pre-empt his leadership rivals and outflank his current boss Stephane Dion, who could step down as early as next week, insiders tell CTV News.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Speaking of the Liberals... Step 1 in the merging of the Liberal and NDP parties?

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...tories&s_name=

I think this coalition has killed the political future of Dion (if it wasn't already dead), and is going to ruin Rae as well. What is wrong with this guy? He can clearly see how unpopular the idea is across Canada, why go coast-to-coast to pump it up? Bad move IMO. Ignatieff is almost certainly a shoe-in for the leadership.

[FlamesAddiction]

I really hope they don't officially merge. I wouldn't mind a temporary coalition, but I think it's better to have a more centrist choice. If the NDP merge with the Liberals, they will probably be too left. Similar to how the right Reformists hijacked the Progressive Conservative Party.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I really hope they don't officially merge. I wouldn't mind a temporary coalition, but I think it's better to have a more centrist choice. If the NDP merge with the Liberals, they will probably be too left. Similar to how the right Reformists hijacked the Progressive Conservative Party.

That's because the Canadian Alliance was more popular. It only makes sense that the more powerful of the two parties at the time of the merger will wield more influence.

[FanIn80]

I say just give us our election so we can end this discussion once and for all.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I really hope they don't officially merge. I wouldn't mind a temporary coalition, but I think it's better to have a more centrist choice. If the NDP merge with the Liberals, they will probably be too left. Similar to how the right Reformists hijacked the Progressive Conservative Party.

I can't see the Liberals merging with the NDP. The Liberals actually have a chance to win it all every few years. Getting in the sack with those crazy dippers would drive a lot of people away and would only attract a few.

I'm about as lefty as they get on the social issues (I believe abortion, gay marriage and pot-smoking should be mandatory except for those with special dispensation from David Suzuki) but even I recognize how loony and untenable some of those NDP ideas are.

[metallicat]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I say just give us our election so we can end this discussion once and for all.

Yup. And judging by the latest polls, looks like the CPC are firmly in majority territory right now. I can see enough voters getting cold feet though...

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I really hope they don't officially merge. I wouldn't mind a temporary coalition, but I think it's better to have a more centrist choice. If the NDP merge with the Liberals, they will probably be too left. Similar to how the right Reformists hijacked the Progressive Conservative Party.

I tend to agree. That would move us much closer to a two-party system (federallly speaking). Liberals for the left leaning, Conservatives for the right leaning, and maybe a handful of seats for anyone else other than the BQ.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Unless the BQ lose a bunch of seats, no one will be getting an overwhelming majority any time soon. I still think we are going to get minority governments for a long time. At best it will be a razor thin majority.

If the latest poll were to translate into votes in an election, the PCs would be looking at huge gains in Ontario and BC, and you can pretty much guarantee that lonely Dipper in Edmonton gets the boot too. They are still polling almost even in Quebec, though I'd expect they would lose seats there. It wouldn't be a crushing majority, but those polls would probably translate into about 165-180 seats. A very safe majority.

As far as voter turnout goes, I wouldn't bet on record numbers, but if an election were held today, I would expect significantly higher turnout. This mess has everyone thinking about politics again, and people will want to have their say.

[metallicat]

I don't think we're going to be going to the polls immediately. One way or another, I think the CPC survive the next little while. Either the budget will pass because of concessions by everyone, or enough dissension occurs within the Libs that causes a number of MPs to either outright defect, or sit as Independents. I really don't think though, that the Liberal caucus is going to be willing to go ahead with the coalition, OR force an election right now. They need a new leader in a very big way.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Agreed. Strategic voting, as redforever put it, is worse than not voting in my opinion. Seems cowardly.

Vote for whom you want to win, not to block another candidate or to get a "2nd worst option" into office. Absurd.

Why don't you read what I said.