Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by SebC

As does granting a prorogue to a PM who is using it to delay a non-confidence vote that he would have certainly lost. My whole point was that either decision sets a bad precedent.

An act of Parliament can eliminate the ability to do this again in the future.

The other option was not reversible.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

An act of Parliament can eliminate the ability to do this again in the future.

The other option was not reversible.

That's actually a very good point that I hadn't considered. Thank you for pointing that out to me.

I disagree with FanIn80s argument, but I feel that arguing with it directly will lead us to a circular argument because it comes back to the mandate of a minority and the value of being elected by a plurality but not a majority of voters. To me, there's no difference between a "future PM who doesn't have the support of Canadians" and Stephen Harper today, as he was not elected with a majority. Granted, nobody else was either, which is where having the support of the house, who were elected by Canadians to represent them, becomes important.

[flamey_mcflame]

Surprise surprise, Harper got his prorogue and suspended parliament. Should we have expected anything else from this crazy character. To summarize:

a) He brought down a minority Liberal government
b) He brought down his own minority government
c) He brought down his own minority government again for two months

Nothing says economic stability more than our P.M. shutting down parliament so he can have a 2 month holiday to try on sweaters from L.L. Bean. Unbeknownst to our argyle loving friend, Canadians have finally seen through his tired and drawn out charade. The emperor may wear clothes, but he can not hide his bullying, power hungry and childish skin. You have exposed yourself Mr. Prime Minister. Your only option is to to get down on one knee, kiss Iggy's ring and plead for mercy. If our next Canadian leader accepts, then maybe he'll let you run government for a year or two.

And in your new economic update, please make sure to include the elimination of all tax credited donations to political parties. After all, we don't want your campaign to be subsidized by tax payer's dollars. And while you're at it, how about denouncing the terrorists who firebombed signs and ransacked the offices of opposition mp's. I don't want my P.M. supporting terrorism in our own country. Enjoy your paid vacation. Remember, don't wear white pullovers after Labour Day, Sweaters.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

An act of Parliament can eliminate the ability to do this again in the future.

The other option was not reversible.

I dont know if an Act of Parliament can change the duties or role of either the Prime Minister or the Governor General of Canada. I think those kind of things are outlined in the Constitution and require the formula of 7 of the 10 provinces etc to change.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Nancy

What exactly qualifies him as being a leadership candidate, other than having had his life handed to him on a silver platter? Where, exactly, has he put in his time to earn this position, and where has he proven himself to be fit and capable for the job? What, on his resume, qualifies him for this position... his brief stint as a school teacher, his acting career, or the fact that he is studying Geography currently? What wild and manic career changes! I just hope he's more like his dad than his bipolar mom.

Can you give me a reference where it outlines all the qualifications that an elected official must possess?

I would like to see how many present MP's qualify.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That very same constitutional law legitimizes Jean's decision today. So by your own argument, you should be supporting her.



The people represented by over 140 ridings were disenfranchised by the axis of evil. I'm sorry that your side's dirty politics was defeated by my side's dirty politics. That's life.

Now comes the real test for the leaders of this coup: Can they actually remain united for two months? We're about to find out whether Dion and his puppetmasters can actually live up to their bravado.

Canada won today, because for the next two months, we have stability at a time when it is needed most. And two months from now, Jean will know for certain whether allowing the coalition or calling an election represents the better direction.

Assuming there is still a coalition in place, of course.

Not to sound like an A hole, but I find myself disagreeing with many of your OT posts.
But I thought this one was excellent. Not that you need my endorsement or anything.

[vicphoenix13]

Originally Posted by Nancy

What exactly qualifies him as being a leadership candidate, other than having had his life handed to him on a silver platter? Where, exactly, has he put in his time to earn this position, and where has he proven himself to be fit and capable for the job? What, on his resume, qualifies him for this position... his brief stint as a school teacher, his acting career, or the fact that he is studying Geography currently? What wild and manic career changes! I just hope he's more like his dad than his bipolar mom.

What qualifies Justin Trudeau to be a leader? Well for one, he graduated with a BA from McGill and a B. Ed. from UBC. That means he has some brains. Also, he has lived in different parts of the country. Too often, political leaders don't have a clue what people need in different parts of the country. Having lived in Vancouver, he knows about some of the problems people in the west are dealing with.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by vicphoenix13

What qualifies Justin Trudeau to be a leader? Well for one, he graduated with a BA from McGill and a B. Ed. from UBC. That means he has some brains. Also, he has lived in different parts of the country. Too often, political leaders don't have a clue what people need in different parts of the country. Having lived in Vancouver, he knows about some of the problems people in the west are dealing with.

This all qualifies him to be a high school teacher and a person who has filled out change-of-address cards at the post office.

That's not to say that can't be a successful politician (nor is it a hack on high school teachers) but that education doesn't make him anything special.

Having lived in Vancouver, he knows about some of the problems people in the west are dealing with.

Come on now.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

This all qualifies him to be a high school teacher and a person who has filled out change-of-address cards at the post office.

That's not to say that can't be a successful politician (nor is it a hack on high school teachers) but that education doesn't make him anything special.



Come on now.

It also does not make him in any way inferior to just about every politician in the country.

[vicphoenix13]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

This all qualifies him to be a high school teacher and a person who has filled out change-of-address cards at the post office.

That's not to say that can't be a successful politician (nor is it a hack on high school teachers) but that education doesn't make him anything special.



Come on now.

I think the fact that Justin Trudeau has spent time on opposite sides of the country is an asset. Too many of Canada's political leaders have been focused on eastern Canada while ignoring western Canada. Don't get me wrong, he still needs to spend some time working as an MP.

[Dion]

nm

[photon]

FYI guys if you've emailed the GG using an email posted in thread waaay back, please check to see if you've emailed to the right one.

The owners of gg.com tried to register here (I banned them thinking they were a spammer, oops!) to let us know that many emails have been sent to THEM rather than the correct email of info@gg.ca

So check your sent items and make sure.

</public service announcement>

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

Unbeknownst to our argyle loving friend, Canadians have finally seen through his tired and drawn out charade.

Funny. Polls argue that Harper's support has increased, and that more Canadians believe that the Tories are the best choice to lead this nation through these economic times than any other group, far ahead of either the coalition or any member of it individually.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by photon

FYI guys if you've emailed the GG using an email posted in thread waaay back, please check to see if you've emailed to the right one.

The owners of gg.com tried to register here (I banned them thinking they were a spammer, oops!) to let us know that many emails have been sent to THEM rather than the correct email of info@gg.ca

So check your sent items and make sure.

</public service announcement>

lol. And my company blocks gg.com as a gambling site. They must have been going "wtf".

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by vicphoenix13

What qualifies Justin Trudeau to be a leader? Well for one, he graduated with a BA from McGill and a B. Ed. from UBC. That means he has some brains. Also, he has lived in different parts of the country. Too often, political leaders don't care what people need in different parts of the country. Having lived in Vancouver, he knows about some of the problems people in the west are dealing with.

There. Fixed that for you.

[old-fart]

The GG made the only decision she could. Those complaining about it really don't understand our system of government I think. If the GG had gone against the recommendations of the PM, she would in effect be exerting the will of the Queen (she is the Queen's representative in Canada) over the will of the people's elected representative. Do we all really want the Queen to run our politics? I know the Queen doesn't want that, because she has said as much in relation to other commonwealth countries (Australia specifically I believe). If the GG had denied Harper's advice there would a consitutional crisis not just in this country, but in every commonwealth country. I expect the Queen would have removed the GG and Harper would have been able to "recommend" a new one to the Queen.

In any event, Harper and the Conservatives will work over the next 5 weeks to put together a budget that they hope will be supported. They'll almost assuredly work to discredit the separatist coalition as well, something that won't be nearly as hard. If the budget is passed, we all get on with our lives. If not, Harper will recommend the dissolution of parliament to the GG, a request she will certainly grant, and we'll go back to the polls some 35 days after.

If Dion wants to be PM, he needs to win that mandate from the voters by having more seats than the other guys, or having a coalition in place BEFORE the GG names the PM after the results of the next election.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by flamey_mcflame

Surprise surprise, Harper got his prorogue and suspended parliament. Should we have expected anything else from this crazy character. To summarize:

a) He brought down a minority Liberal government
b) He brought down his own minority government
c) He brought down his own minority government again for two months

Nothing says economic stability more than our P.M. shutting down parliament so he can have a 2 month holiday to try on sweaters from L.L. Bean. Unbeknownst to our argyle loving friend, Canadians have finally seen through his tired and drawn out charade. The emperor may wear clothes, but he can not hide his bullying, power hungry and childish skin. You have exposed yourself Mr. Prime Minister. Your only option is to to get down on one knee, kiss Iggy's ring and plead for mercy. If our next Canadian leader accepts, then maybe he'll let you run government for a year or two.

And in your new economic update, please make sure to include the elimination of all tax credited donations to political parties. After all, we don't want your campaign to be subsidized by tax payer's dollars. And while you're at it, how about denouncing the terrorists who firebombed signs and ransacked the offices of opposition mp's. I don't want my P.M. supporting terrorism in our own country. Enjoy your paid vacation. Remember, don't wear white pullovers after Labour Day, Sweaters.

Rick Bell, is that you?

Lots of words, very little substance.

[Resolute 14]

Given that we're already seeing dissention within Liberal ranks, I expect this coalition will live only so long as to get a couple Liberal proposed changes into the budget. At that point, Dion will claim victory because he got the government to listen to him, Harper will claim victory because the Conservatives will still be in power, and the NDP and Bloc can return to irrelevancy.

Six weeks ago, Canadians overwhelmingly told Ottawa that they want a centre-right government in these times, not a left wing. The NDP and Bloc have absolutely no mandate from the people to dictate this nation's economy.

In the end, the Liberal party will come to realize this.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by old-fart

The GG made the only decision she could. Those complaining about it really don't understand our system of government I think. If the GG had gone against the recommendations of the PM, she would in effect be exerting the will of the Queen (she is the Queen's representative in Canada) over the will of the people's elected representative. Do we all really want the Queen to run our politics? I know the Queen doesn't want that, because she has said as much in relation to other commonwealth countries (Australia specifically I believe). If the GG had denied Harper's advice there would a consitutional crisis not just in this country, but in every commonwealth country. I expect the Queen would have removed the GG and Harper would have been able to "recommend" a new one to the Queen.

I disagree. She could have made LOTS of different decisions.

The fact of the matter is any decision she did make was going to set some sort of a precedent. In this case, there is now a precedent that a First Minister can prorogue the session when at risk of being defeated in a confidence motion. But she had many constitutional experts advising her, and in this case I'm kind of glad there was a person who was able to try and make the decision with the best interests at heart and not just trying to save their job or feather their own nest in some way.

Now I personally agree with the decision, but I also think her other options could have also had compelling, and valid, arguments made.

[Resolute 14]

Well, she had only two choices with respect to this specific question, however.

Either agree with the PMs advice, or disagree with it.

old-fart is right that to disagree with the PM's advice would have been to put the Queen above the people's elected representative.

And disagreeing would have opened up one hell of a can of worms. By tradition, Harper would have been compelled to offer up his resignation on the spot if she went against his advice.

So what then? Does she reject his resignation, order a new election or call Dion and ask him if he can form a government?

All three of those choices would have created a firestorm across Canada.

She had other options, but prorogueing the house is ultimately the least controversial, and the one with the highest odds of getting government back on track.

Also, fwiw, I have read from others that MacDonald prorogued the house during the Pacific Scandal when he was about to lose a no-confidence vote. So there might already be precedent. Haven't been able to verify the truth of that, however.