Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[ernie]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Something like that shouldn't matter to any reasonable preson. Harper had all day to make his video and likely took every measure he could to make it look nice. Dion and Layton had to wait to hear what Harper was going to say before they could make a rebuttle.

I agree that Harper is a better public speaker, but he isn't that great either. Anyone who judges them on anything but their message is just being petty.

All you need to do is read the stories in the media today. Dion, the Liberals and the coalition did not come off as looking professional or capable. The video quality and tardiness of the delivery is part of that. Dion did not need to wait to put what he said together. As pointed out I don't believe it was to be a response speech but a "why they are doing this speech".

Like it or not, being "presedential looking" or in this case "prime ministerial" is a BIG deal to a lot of people.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by ikaris

As has been said many times over, this crisis wouldn't have happened until the Conservatives tried to bankrupt the other parties. Maybe if somebody didn't decide to have such a bright idea, we'd all be focusing on what's important, the economy.

Incorrect, the wheels were in motion to topple this minority government before political party welfare was brought up. With this issue being the straw that broke the camels back dont you think its these political parties doing things for themselves, without the Canadians interests in mind.

If this wasn't happening we would be focused on the economy. This has all been in initiated by the opposition parties.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's this thinking that makes Canada a second rate country on the global stage - ie. wait to see what the U.S. does. We don't always have to be their puppy and once in a while we need to take a proactive approach to our own destiny.

When economic sectors are so intertwined between two countries then you have to wait. Remember the Ford, GM, etc are American owned. If Obama comes out in a month and says, increase production in the States and give jobs to Americans, GM and Ford are basically going to shut down those Canadian Plants and move that manufacturing and Employment to the States and theres no economic bailout on our side of the border thats going to change that. We can't drive ahead until our biggest economic partner, not trading partner decides on what to do. There's no point in putting billions into forestry if the American's stop buying wood and start a buy American based Stimulus, so you have to wait. You can't just throw money into it and hope that the cards fall where they're suppossed to.

Originally Posted by ikaris

Canada is in an enviable position right now. Our economy and banking system hasn't been hit as hard as some other countries, but make no mistake, we are in a slow burn right now and as slow as a burn as it has been (relative to say Britain and the States), our economy will also probably recover more slowly when the recession is already over for Britain and the U.S. That is why action is needed sooner rather than later. There is no reason to wait for things to get worse, and in fact, it would be much more preferrable to nip it before hand.

We have limited dollars so we have limited abilities to misread the global market place and make mistakes on how our stimulus programs are going to shape up. Because we are in better shape economically we are in a better position to take a look at what the American's and other nations are doing that effectively impact our business and respond and create programs accordingly.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Ok but you seem to be willing to forgive the Liberals and some of their outright racial and diversive comments, we don't hear any mention of that. Unless its true that for example crosses were burning in Kelowna that night, while the Jews were warning their friends not to go to work at the World Trade Center on 9/11, while telling the Americans that they hate them and stomping on a George Bush doll. C'mon be fair Ikaris, both parties have their share of outright nut jobs that have to be controlled by the masses. Don't paint one party as having a radical fringe element without doing the same to the others.

Well you're right in that it's unfair for me to paint only the Conservatives in that light. I really believe that the majority of Conservatives do not share those values. It's frustrating though to see that Lee Richardson can still get elected here in Calgary (he would immediately have to resign if a comment like that was said anywhere east of Manitoba). That more speaks to the electorate though.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

One can hope, however I don't have a lot of faith that the opposition is going to work with the government. If the Conservatives have to extend that hand of cooperation, then the Liberals and NDP and Bloc have to do the same. However planning to topple the government two days after the election and not backing off on this coaltion after Harper backed off on points of his update tells me that the opposition has really never been willing to work with this government.

I know where you're coming from, I don't understand it either. Especially politically from a Liberals perspective. They were really in the "win" here after the Conservatives conceded so many points, easily could walk away now. It seems personal.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's this thinking that makes Canada a second rate country on the global stage - ie. wait to see what the U.S. does. We don't always have to be their puppy and once in a while we need to take a proactive approach to our own destiny.

Canada is in an enviable position right now. Our economy and banking system hasn't been hit as hard as some other countries, but make no mistake, we are in a slow burn right now and as slow as a burn as it has been (relative to say Britain and the States), our economy will also probably recover more slowly when the recession is already over for Britain and the U.S. That is why action is needed sooner rather than later. There is no reason to wait for things to get worse, and in fact, it would be much more preferrable to nip it before hand.

But the United States is our primary economic partner. It doesn't make us any more second rate than any other country that deals with the United States. The damage to the US economy has set off the global meltdown, and working with other governments is essential.

But the thing that gets me is that a budget, stimulus package, or whatever cannot possibly be delivered any sooner, especially by a Dion led coalition. What Canada NEEDS is for these parties to work together, not to have a coalition propped up by the Bloc who have no national interest taking control.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Something like that shouldn't matter to any reasonable preson. Harper had all day to make his video and likely took every measure he could to make it look nice. Dion and Layton had to wait to hear what Harper was going to say before they could make a rebuttle.

Not true. From the CTV Story posted earlier:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories

# 6:15-6:30 - The Liberal miss their promised deadline to deliver Dion's statement to the television networks.
...
# 7:05 - Liberal staffers were still in their offices as the networks went to air with the Harper address.
# 7:07 - Harper's statement finishes and network anchors are forced to kill time as they wait for Dion's address.

If they had to wait for Harper to finish, why did they promise to have their tape in for 6:15-6:30, at least 30 minutes before Harper's speech went to air?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Jade

Yeah, there will be some money to Quebec in the conservative budget too. But I just don't believe that the Bloc would join this unless there is something in it that they absolutely could not have gotten from the conservatives. And until the final coalition budget is out, we don't know what that is.

Agreed on the auto bailout. If the UAW union doesn't want to do anything to preserve their jobs, why should we. The way things are run right now, domestic cars are not profitable. If the buisness isn't profitable, major changes need to be made in its own system before the government should step in. Otherwise the cycle will repeat.

I thought it was the Canadian union of autoworkers that told the automakers to look elsewhere. The UAW just agreed to a massive multi billion dollar restructuring of their collective bargining agreement to help the Automakers in their quest for Government money.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's this thinking that makes Canada a second rate country on the global stage - ie. wait to see what the U.S. does. We don't always have to be their puppy and once in a while we need to take a proactive approach to our own destiny.

Canada is in an enviable position right now. Our economy and banking system hasn't been hit as hard as some other countries, but make no mistake, we are in a slow burn right now and as slow as a burn as it has been (relative to say Britain and the States), our economy will also probably recover more slowly when the recession is already over for Britain and the U.S. That is why action is needed sooner rather than later. There is no reason to wait for things to get worse, and in fact, it would be much more preferrable to nip it before hand.

And it's this kind of thinking that makes intelligent people scratch their heads.

Whether your eyes are capable of seeing it or not, it doesn't change the simple fact that Canada's economy IS tied to the US's economy. Especially in the auto industry.

The very notion that the Liberals and Socialists are prepared to throw $30 billion dollars at our auto industry (especially when they're all just US companies anyway), without waiting to see if the US is going to do the same, scares the bajeebas out of me.

Extreme example: What happens if the Libs and Russians get to throw that $30 billion dollars at Ford Canada, et al... and in January, Obama announces that all US auto makers are to pull the plugs on their international plants and move all those jobs back into the USA? What auto industry will we have then? What benefit will we get from that $30 billion knee-jerk reaction?

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't recall any rebuttals in Dions speech to Harpers speech. In fact I don't recall any serious content in his speech at all. It was a pretty generic campaign speech, and they shouldn't have been late unless they had to do 50 retakes.

The latness and the quality points to a party that can't take care of simple tasks. The book in the background points to someone making a funny at Dion's expense.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It's this thinking that makes Canada a second rate country on the global stage - ie. wait to see what the U.S. does. We don't always have to be their puppy and once in a while we need to take a proactive approach to our own destiny.

Here's the thing - we aren't in full crisis mode. A massive response is not needed absolutely immediately. The US is. Expect large changes down there.

As for us being a second rate country because we're waiting - so what - who cares how it looks. The main factor that will dictate how the economy goes is how the US deals with this. They are our largest trading partner, probably considered our closest ally and geographically closest to us. Also their GDP is about 14 times higher than ours. We can do all we want up here in terms of stimulus packages and what not but lets face facts, the biggest impact at this point is going to be because of decisions made south of the border.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Not true. From the CTV Story posted earlier:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...hub=TopStories

# 6:15-6:30 - The Liberal miss their promised deadline to deliver Dion's statement to the television networks.
...
# 7:05 - Liberal staffers were still in their offices as the networks went to air with the Harper address.
# 7:07 - Harper's statement finishes and network anchors are forced to kill time as they wait for Dion's address.

If they had to wait for Harper to finish, why did they promise to have their tape in for 6:15-6:30, at least 30 minutes before Harper's speech went to air?

You are correct - the Liberals were supposed to tape their presentation. It wasn't a rebuttal. The Liberals were totally incompetent in that.

[Gozer]

Dion didn't know it said Hot Air, he thought it said Aught Heir.

[bomber317]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There is no reason to wait for things to get worse, and in fact, it would be much more preferrable to nip it before hand.

What could they do though? I'm no fiance/economics major but let's say we throw some money into the housing industry.

What are they going to do with that money? Build more houses in a saturated market? Just give money to the workers? ie: handouts?

If somebody could present something that is viable, then I can be more critical of the government not doing anything, but as it stands right now, I'm ok with them waiting and seeing.

We have to wait until all the bad credit is out of the system and that could take years. I'm not convinced that propping up dying industries is the way to go, but I can't tell you a good solution.

[GirlySports]

The Liberal tape was going to be a rebuttal of Harper's speech without hearing Harper's speech. But Harper's speech was so short and precise that the Liberals had to tape a new one. And you how Dion is under-pressure

I'm absolutely shocked and pleased that the GG accepted the prorogation of parliament. Dion is in a world of hurt now.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by bomber317

I'm not convinced that propping up dying industries is the way to go.

It would make for a brighter outlook!

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by ikaris

It will be in the budget in the form of stimulus. Just like it would have been in the coalition budget.

Would have been? I wish I could see into the future.

Originally Posted by ikaris

I really do hope to see the NDP/Liberals compromise too, infrastructure spending makes sense, but I really don't see how an auto bailout has any sort of logic.

I don't get the whole infrastructure spending bit. Lots of our infrastructure that has been started lately has taken years to plan, engineer, and resource. Throwing money at the issue right now is not going to do anything for the foreseeable future.

[kermitology]

I was listening to Dion and Layton's responses to the Prorouge of Parliament.

I had to turn it off it made me so irritated..

Layton commented that Harper used "parliamentary tricks" to avoid the non-confidence vote. Just like the coalition would have used to garner power.

Dion commented that Harper and the Conservatives have not presented Canadians with a clear picture of what they will do for Canada's economy, while the coalition has. Excuse me? You have? You have provided a detailed budget that indicates how much money is being spent where? Vague ideas of money being given where it's needed is not an economic plan Mr. Dion.

ARAAAAHGHGHGHGHHH!!!

This partisan political bull crap has to stop. Dion challenged Harper to reach out to the opposition in the formation of a plan to deal with the Canadian economy. Now if the Liberal's and NDP refuse to discuss with the Conservatives just because they want power, then this posturing is infuriating to me as a Canadian.

Canada doesn't need an incompetent man who can't even deliver a proper address to Canadians leading the country, it doesn't need a sleazy used car salesman making back door deals with people who have no interest in the stability of the NATION, and they don't need a bully who kicks the opposition when they are down (even though I'd like it if they got rid of those vote subsidies).

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

And it's this kind of thinking that makes intelligent people scratch their heads.

Whether your eyes are capable of seeing it or not, it doesn't change the simple fact that Canada's economy IS tied to the US's economy. Especially in the auto industry.

You know, it's funny. You talk about intelligence, yet you can't discuss this issue without throwing personal insults at other posters. Who do you think looks more intelligent, the 95% of the people posting in support or non-support of the issues while acting like adults, or you, who has to portray such an extreme and childish act by insulting people?

[flamesfever]

Unless Harper starts showing a little more statesmanship, I'm starting to think he doesn't stand a chance to recover from his blunders.

Even though I believe he is probably the best man for the job at this period of time, I think he is going to have to admit and learn from his mistakes.
l

[Jade]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I thought it was the Canadian union of autoworkers that told the automakers to look elsewhere. The UAW just agreed to a massive multi billion dollar restructuring of their collective bargining agreement to help the Automakers in their quest for Government money.

Oops, yeah, my bad. I did mean the canadian union. Thanks for correcting me.