Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[Jade]

Originally Posted by ikaris

On the flip side, I refuse to trust the Conservatives with a majority government. It really has to do with the Reform party more than anything. Looking back, how many different former Reform MPs can we see that have been quoted with racist remarks, or radical right wing social ideologies? Even recently, you hear the same garbage coming from a certain Calgary MP.

A minority is good because they can be kept in check and you would assume that they would negotiate with other parties (as we've learned, they didn't in their first major confidence vote until after they were threatened with losing their power).

While I agree that some of these dufi need to be removed from the conservatives, you honestly think a party run by theives is more trustworthy than a party with a few stupid backbenchers? Really? I think this is where the problem in Canadian politics lies right here.

And you keep saying the conservatives wouldn't negotiate, yet you have no proof. The NDP and the bloc had already banded together against them, and the liberals never negotiate with them. Who is this mythical group they were supposed to negotiate with?

[Bobblehead]

I guess that is the best of a bad situation, but I don't look forward to this being the lead story for the next month.

There happens to be a world-wide economic crisis, I wish the partisan politics had been put aside to deal with the situation (and I'm looking at BOTH sides of the aisle, every elected representative should be ashamed, no matter what their political stripes)

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Jade

And you keep saying the conservatives wouldn't negotiate, yet you have no proof. The NDP and the bloc had already banded together against them, and the liberals never negotiate with them. Who is this mythical group they were supposed to negotiate with?

I've already posted an article from CBC on the 28th that showed that the Conservatives refused to negotiate and said the economic update would stand as is.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/11/28/flaherty.html

Only until they realized that the opposition wasn't going to rollover and they were going to lose their power was when the Conservatives decided to revise their economic update.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by ikaris

Aside from adscam (sponsorship scsndal) the rest was really just incompetence.

Have they shown that they have any kind of competence at all? They can't even get a video out!

[Rerun]

This is the very best thing that could have happened.
It gives Harper a chance to see what the USA is going to do with regards to economic stimulus.... which is what he wanted to do all the time.
For Canada to start immediately throwing money at problems (which is what the Coalition wants to do), without seeing what the USA is going to do, is just foolish. Our financial impact will be very negligable if it doesn't reflect what the USA is doing too. To do otherwise would be extremely wastefull.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by ikaris

I've already posted an article from CBC on the 28th that showed that the Conservatives refused to negotiate and said the economic update would stand as is.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/11/28/flaherty.html

Only until they realized that the opposition wasn't going to rollover and they were going to lose their power was when the Conservatives decided to revise their economic update.

*hits head against wall*. Again, by then everyone else was already banded together. Who were they going to negotiate with? Hell, by then the liberals were already officially involved in the coalition. I've said it before, I'll say it again: you can't negotiate with others if they won't negotiate with you. The conservatives alread knew about the coalition plans right from the start. They already knew no one was interested in negotiations.

[The Goon]

Parliament has been perogied!

[driveway]

Interesting. I did not expect the GG to agree to prorogue and I don't think I like the precedent it sets, ie: that a Prime Minister can suspend parliament when facing a non-confidence vote.

In the end, this will probably work out for the best, but who knows how it will work out? This could give the Tories the opportunity to structure a budget which includes compromises which will please the opposition and allow them to keep power.

It could also give the coalition time to get its act together and really build an effective structure, remove Dion from the prospective leadership and get someone in there who has the respect of Canadians.

The CPC still faces a confidence vote in January and they are still in a Minority position.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Have they shown that they have any kind of competence at all? They can't even get a video out!

Nor can they raise funds for their party, welfare for political parties has to end. Thank you Mr. Harper for bringing that nugget to the fore front.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by ikaris

I posed this question earlier, but no one seemed to bite. How will people react when the Conservatives essentially try to buy Quebec off with money in their upcoming budget? Will it be OK because it's now the blue party giving our money up?

From the beginning I supported the initial Conservative budget and I thought that any sort of bailout is premature. SebC has astutely put it best, that Alberta really doesn't have influence in any party.

I'm not going to like the budget if it has this new "Quebec Money" in it. It isn't needed and now is not the right time for huge spending on pet political projects.

That said, it would show that the Conservatives are compromising and are listening to the opposition.

"They Conservatives have spent the most money and aren't compromising"... sure they aren't. How many times have they moved from their position due to political pressure, even before this $1.95/vote fiasco? Too many for my liking, but that is the nature of minority parliaments. Too bad most of that is going under the radar.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by driveway

Interesting. I did not expect the GG to agree to prorogue and I don't think I like the precedent it sets, ie: that a Prime Minister can suspend parliament when facing a non-confidence vote.

In the end, this will probably work out for the best, but who knows how it will work out? This could give the Tories the opportunity to structure a budget which includes compromises which will please the opposition and allow them to keep power.

It could also give the coalition time to get its act together and really build an effective structure, remove Dion from the prospective leadership and get someone in there who has the respect of Canadians.

The CPC still faces a confidence vote in January and they are still in a Minority position.

To not grant prorogue would set the precedent.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by driveway

Interesting. I did not expect the GG to agree to prorogue and I don't think I like the precedent it sets, ie: that a Prime Minister can suspend parliament when facing a non-confidence vote.

It's just as legal and possible as this coalition. Probably more in the spirit of democracy because it should allow for the time to generate actual plans instead of foaming at the mouth about how you have no confidence in Harper who has done nothing (what can he do yet?).

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by Jade

*hits head against wall*. Again, by then everyone else was already banded together. Who were they going to negotiate with? Hell, by then the liberals were already officially involved in the coalition. I've said it before, I'll say it again: you can't negotiate with others if they won't negotiate with you. The conservatives alread knew about the coalition plans right from the start. They already knew no one was interested in negotiations.

*hits head against wall as well* lol. At that stage of the game, they could have negotiated with the Liberals (or even the Bloc!). There was no signed accord. Who's to say this didn't occur? My suggestion was the only time they did try to negotiate was when they realized their power was in jeopardy. It was too late anyways, confidence was lost because of the blatant partisanship displayed by Harper.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Yeah watching Duffy as well - unreal. This may have been brilliant by Harper. Ask for TV time knowing that Dion would as well and just let the guy screw himself.

That's what I assumed would happen because it happened all along the campaign trail. And happen it did. Dion simply can't explain anything in a simple manner and in a manner that makes people feel at ease. He's a brutal public speaker and even worse if he has to do some sort of thinking on the fly.

The stuff with the poor video quality, missing the deadline etc is just gravy for Harper and the conservatives.

BTW a poll I read today is that among conservative supporters, only 16 % feel he should step down.

[GreatWhiteEbola]

Originally Posted by Rerun

This is the very best thing that could have happened.
It gives Harper a chance to see what the USA is going to do with regards to economic stimulus.... which is what he wanted to do all the time.
For Canada to start immediately throwing money at problems (which is what the Coalition wants to do), without seeing what the USA is going to do, is just foolish. Our financial impact will be very negligable if it doesn't reflect what the USA is doing too. To do otherwise would be extremely wastefull.

Exactly, if the USA doesn't prop up the auto industry and housing construction, what will the money we put into the auto industry and forestry do?

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by driveway

Interesting. I did not expect the GG to agree to prorogue and I don't think I like the precedent it sets, ie: that a Prime Minister can suspend parliament when facing a non-confidence vote.

and when there is a huge mutiny all signed and sealed and ready to be delivered....

Like that's going to be a common occurrence.

[The Goon]

Duceppe is awesome.

He just answered a question with, "If my gramma had wheels she'd be a tractor." Best. Line. Ever.

I just wish he was a federalist.

[North East Goon]

The Prime Minister is likely going to have to give in to the Kyoto debate. Layton sounds like he is not going to negotiate at all.

[ikaris]

Originally Posted by calculoso

I'm not going to like the budget if it has this new "Quebec Money" in it. It isn't needed and now is not the right time for huge spending on pet political projects.

That said, it would show that the Conservatives are compromising and are listening to the opposition.

"They Conservatives have spent the most money and aren't compromising"... sure they aren't. How many times have they moved from their position due to political pressure, even before this $1.95/vote fiasco? Too many for my liking, but that is the nature of minority parliaments. Too bad most of that is going under the radar.

So initially when the coalition produces an outline which gives Quebec money it's absolutely outrageous buying votes and making deals with separatists. Now that it seems the Conservatives will offer a budget that will essentially mirror exactly what the coalition wanted that it's compromise?

A true Conservative should be outraged at this soon-to-be buying of votes out east. This is just preposterous and it really outlines the lack of partiality that many people seem to display here. I think that all the politicians are all liars and self-serving.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

The Prime Minister is likely going to have to give in to the Kyoto debate. Layton sounds like he is not going to negotiate at all.

Layton doesn't matter. He's completely insignificant.

The Liberal MP's that know how much of a powergrab this is are the ones that matter.

EDIT: That said, man is he sucking his media minutes. Such a smug, pretentious asshat.