Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan] - Page 83 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Jade · 12-03-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

According to the canoe article linked above, Gilles Duceppe suggested that the Conservataives had proposed the same thing as was now being proposed. I'm sure the details were different, but it certainly sounds like he's talking about a formal coalition. Had it been an informal request for support on some issues, one would think that the Conservatives would have pointed it out.

Yeah, not the same thing. Without written proof like we have this time, I'm sceptical of what it says. Especially given how ......flexible Duceppe can be with the facts.

metallicat · 12-03-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

I was really looking for more from that speech. I was hoping he was going too outline what the was going to do.

According to senior government officials though, it sounds like Harper is going to see the GG tomorrow to ask for a prorogue of parliament. I think based on everything I've been reading this past week, he will get that, and we'll see the CPC budget on the 27th.

J pold · 12-03-2008, 05:14 PM

Has anyone seen Dion's speech yet? They don't have it at CTV

opendoor · 12-03-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade

And while I agree with that, shutting the conservatives out in order to jump in bed with the bloc is not working with them. Since canadians said they wanted the parties to work together with the conservatives getting the biggest voice, I don't think shutting them out is doing what canadians wanted.

I don't really get this rhetoric of "jumping in bed" with the Bloc. The only guarantees that the Bloc have given the Liberal-NDP coalition is that they'll support two budgets and one throne speech. Obviously in return for that there will be some perks for Quebec. However, anytime there's a minority government the ruling party has to "jump in bed" with other parties. Martin's Liberals did it with the NDP to pass a budget and Harper's Conservatives did it with the Bloc in 2007.

J pold · 12-03-2008, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

According to senior government officials though, it sounds like Harper is going to see the GG tomorrow to ask for a prorogue of parliament. I think based on everything I've been reading this past week, he will get that, and we'll see the CPC budget on the 27th.

Yeah but I wanted to hear him say that.

Rerun · 12-03-2008, 05:15 PM

All this discussion and arguing back and forth is moot...

The way I see it, this is what is going to happen and I don't think there can be much done to change it:

1. PM Harper will go to the Governor General tomorrow or Friday and ask her to prorogue parliament until late January 2009.
2. She will agree to do that.
3. Parliament will reconvene in late January 2009 and the Conservatives will put forward a new budget full of all sorts of goodies and spending initiatives to get the economy back on track.
4. The budget will look so good, that it will pass. At least one of the coalition parties will vote in favor of it.
5. Shortly after the budget is passed, at the first opportune moment, one of the coalition parties will initiate a vote of non-confidence.
6. The Conservatives will be defeated by the still in-effect coalition.
7. Harper will then go to the GG and ask her to disolve parliament and call an election.
8. The coalition will go to the GG and say: Don't disolve parliament. We are prepared to form a government.
9. Now Canada's fate is in the hands of the Governor General.

Ford Prefect · 12-03-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ikaris

I would add that the best coalition would be a Conservative-Liberal one. Ideologically this shouldn't be impossible (especially with respect to budget votes).

In an ideal world this would be true. Unfortunately, the long standing hatred and partisan crap between the two parties makes this impossible in reality. That same partisan bull whack is what stands between way too many supporters of the two parties as well and prevents them from finding common ground, whether in debates like those in this thread, on the floor of the House of Commons, or wherever. Personally, I pretty much hate all politicians, it's just that I hate some more than others.

Mccree · 12-03-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

I actually thought it was pretty weak.

Ya I wanted more but overall it was ok.

metallicat · 12-03-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

Has anyone seen Dion's speech yet? They don't have it at CTV

Not yet, I think the problem is that Dion wasn't aware he had to send the tape in. He was confused.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

Yeah but I wanted to hear him say that.

Fair enough. You probably aren't alone in that desire.

Flames2007FIRE IT UP · 12-03-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jade

And while I agree with that, shutting the conservatives out in order to jump in bed with the bloc is not working with them. Since canadians said they wanted the parties to work together with the conservatives getting the biggest voice, I don't think shutting them out is doing what canadians wanted.

I don't think we can yet conclude the fact the Conservatives were 'shut-out.' The party with the most votes in parliment is never really 'shut-out.' I think this is a difference in thinking - the Conservatives think they got shut-out the Liberals and NDP want to govern as a group. I think we will have to wait and see how the Liberals and NDP govern before the conclusion of the Conservatives being 'shut-out.'

I think the Liberals and NDP have a major opportunity to actually show how they would govern and possible wrestle away a majority in the next government. The other interesting note is did the Conservatives 'shut-out' the other parties. All opposition parties have complained about Conservative arrogance. They atleast now have shown an ability to work with each other. I think the Conservatives failed to understand they were quite vulnerable.

First Lady · 12-03-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

Has anyone seen Dion's speech yet? They don't have it at CTV

They dont have the tape yet..... He is busy doing his "do overs".

JiriHrdina · 12-03-2008, 05:20 PM

Ha Ha Lloyd is pissed off that they gave up TV time and the Grits haven't delivered the speech.

Could be a pretty big gaffe. Harper's speech wasn't that great - not enough meat to it - but at least he delivered.

The guy that wants to now run the country can't even get a frickin tape delivered.

3 Justin 3 · 12-03-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

Has anyone seen Dion's speech yet? They don't have it at CTV

I am watching CBC and they have to delay playing it so all the networks play it at the same time. 2 minutes more maybe.

JiriHrdina · 12-03-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by First Lady

They dont have the tape yet..... He is busy doing his "do overs".

Maybe one of his aids asked him what he would do if he was PM.

We all know how that type of complex question throws him for a loop.

J pold · 12-03-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

Not yet, I think the problem is that Dion wasn't aware he had to send the tape in. He was confused.

Oh man The CTV news panel are starting to rip into Dion for this.

Jade · 12-03-2008, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by opendoor

I don't really get this rhetoric of "jumping in bed" with the Bloc. The only guarantees that the Bloc have given the Liberal-NDP coalition is that they'll support two budgets and one throne speech. Obviously in return for that there will be some perks for Quebec. However, anytime there's a minority government the ruling party has to "jump in bed" with other parties. Martin's Liberals did it with the NDP to pass a budget and Harper's Conservatives did it with the Bloc in 2007.

Usually other parties don't actually require (no other options) the support of another specific party. Usually there are options. This time there aren't. Every single confidence motion that goes through the house MUST be agreed to by the bloc. Which in the end means that they will get a say. Things will be run by them before they are proposed. And the bloc will get to decide which direction this government goes in. Yes parties have needed support from others before. But they have never been required to join with TWO other parties whose support they cannot lose. Gives those parties a little more power IMO. But I guess we'll see.

JiriHrdina · 12-03-2008, 05:24 PM

This is bordering on the absurd now - if they don't get this speech on their entire plan here could completely fall apart on them.

EDIT: Actually it became absurd days ago.

metallicat · 12-03-2008, 05:26 PM

So CBC has it? LOL. Dion is no fan of CTV, so maybe this was done on purpose. What a buffoon.

3 Justin 3 · 12-03-2008, 05:27 PM

Well good job Liberals, they are running out of time on the 30 minute block they had. Dion really knows what he is doing.

Rerun · 12-03-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

Oh man The CTV news panel are starting to rip into Dion for this.

Maybe the coalition couldn't agree amongst themselves, which courier to use to send his speech to ctv?
The Bloc probably demanded a French courier company be used, the NDP probably demanded the use an unionized courier company, and the Liberals are waiting to see which courier company gives them the biggest kick-back.