Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

if the conservatives are the ones that actually force an election through a mass walkout, i doubt it'll be that easy to pick up the seats needed.
If the GG calls the election, i could see them getting the majority.

It depends on how they spin it. If the Conservatives stand up as one, say they don't recognise the ability for a party to power that is in the back pocket of a Seperatist party, and can not work with a party that has an unelectable leader, and is being run in the background by un elected officials.

Then they resign their seats effective immediatley, then play the election on the campaign dollers, the nature of Jack Layton and the Bloc, and Stephane Dion's inability to lead his own party let alone a country.

And they put their vast dollar advantage to work.

They could galvinize Canadians against the trioka.

Who knows though. I might run for election under my own party banner so I can get that sweet 1.95 per vote.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Jade

Harper will never win a majority because a party that has never elected anyone would lose taxpayer funding? Really? Maybe they should be forced to do something before we crucify a man for not wanting to give handouts. Don't get me wrong, I've voted green before, but they've been around for a fairly long time and have never even gotten the party leader to Ottawa. I highly doubt this issue is whats keeping them from getting a majority.

I have never voted green party, I find May a terrible politician.

It's not the Green party that will never give Harper a majority government, it is Harper himself. Why propose a bill like that 6 weeks after you form a MINORITY government. Bring this up when you have a majority later. People will think if he can propose outlandish proposals with a minority government, what would he do if he had total control.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Oh and somthing else no one ever mentions...

Stephen Harper just sat as PM in the longest run for a minority government in Canadian history.

All of a sudden though....Dion and Layton have decided that he is no longer able to do so and have no confidence that he can continue. Really eh? And the ONLY plausible reason they can possibly say this is because this same guy would of forced them and their parties to re-invent the way they raise money, rather than have their hands out fo the dole provided by the people of Canada and their money.

This is so heinous its embarrassing.

How was that stat derived?

Lester Pearson was elected to 2 consecutive minority governments spanning from 1963-1968 (until Trudeau took over and won a majority).

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Jade

So wait, if 54% of Canadians got to vote for three parties, why did I only get to vote for 1? And while we're on topic, how did all of those in the maritimes and ontario know to vote for a party that didn't even run candidates in thier province? NO ONE voted for a coalition, because it wasn't an option. And I'm sure many of those who voted for the individual parties will be unhappy at how quickly they all sold out their ideals.

What are people talking about? It is always an option in a multi-party system. We might not like it, but it is always a possibility, especially when the last government was a minority government.

[Ford Prefect]

Originally Posted by kevman

"And Green Party Leader Elizabeth May is endorsing the proposed coalition government and says she has spoken with Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion about the possibility of her being appointed to the Senate."

How is there not more outrage over this!?!?!

She could not even win her home riding and now she's looking at a Senate seat??? For what, supporting Dion??? I'm sorry but this is totally unacceptable!!!

Geez ... the coalition isn't even officially in power yet and the pork barreling has already started. We are sooooooo screwed. It's going to take a generation to recover from this.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

Chretien did it twice.

There were also two parties to the right of the Lieberals splitting the vote. He wouldn't have accomplished it if he had to go against the CPC instead of Reform and the PC.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

It depends on how they spin it. If the Conservatives stand up as one, say they don't recognise the ability for a party to power that is in the back pocket of a Seperatist party, and can not work with a party that has an unelectable leader, and is being run in the background by un elected officials.

Then they resign their seats effective immediatley, then play the election on the campaign dollers, the nature of Jack Layton and the Bloc, and Stephane Dion's inability to lead his own party let alone a country.

And they put their vast dollar advantage to work.

They could galvinize Canadians against the Three Stooges

Who knows though. I might run for election under my own party banner so I can get that sweet 1.95 per vote.

Fixed.......again

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by troutman

What are people talking about? It is always an option in a multi-party system. We might not like it, but it is always a possibility, especially when the last government was a minority government.

Its open to use, but its one of those "In Case of Emergency Break Glass" sort of loopholes. Its intended use was more along the lines of how Borden used it in 1917... strengthen the governing party to make critical wartime decisions.

Similar to the War Measures Act... short of total war, people would go nuts if it was deployed... but its fully within the rights of the PM.

There's just no system of checks and balances in Canada, and that is alarming at best.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

I have never voted green party, I find May a terrible politician.

It's not the Green party that will never give Harper a majority government, it is Harper himself. Why propose a bill like that 6 weeks after you form a MINORITY government. Bring this up when you have a majority later. People will think if he can propose outlandish proposals with a minority government, what would he do if he had total control.

My guess: because the plans for a coalition were already in place (were before the last election likely), Harper found out, and decided this would come up on possible the most ridiculous grounds to topple a government ever. Can't be sure that's what happened, but it was clear that there was never a possibility of anyone working with the conservatives and they would overturn the election the first chance they get, so why make it a real issue.

[Bobblehead]

Originally Posted by kevman

"And Green Party Leader Elizabeth May is endorsing the proposed coalition government and says she has spoken with Liberal Leader Stéphane Dion about the possibility of her being appointed to the Senate."

How is there not more outrage over this!?!?!

She could not even win her home riding and now she's looking at a Senate seat??? For what, supporting Dion??? I'm sorry but this is totally unacceptable!!!

Michael Fortier lost his election bid, then was appointed to the Senate and the cabinet by Harper.

Were you this outraged then?

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Who knows though. I might run for election under my own party banner so I can get that sweet 1.95 per vote.

Just join the coalition for a nice senate seat.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by troutman

What are people talking about? It is always an option in a multi-party system. We might not like it, but it is always a possibility, especially when the last government was a minority government.

Actually, since Dion campaigned on the promise that he would never form a Coalition with the NDP, the people who voted Liberal voted specifically against a coalition.

As for the people who voted for the Socialist Party or the Separatist Party... well... those parties have, historically, been ready to jump in either bed at a moment's notice, so I guess it can be argued that the people who voted for them voted in favour of bending over for anyone that wants to give them some power.

[ernie]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

That's actually my theory for why voter turnout was so low for the last election. I think a lot of people that stayed home were people who wanted to vote Liberal but were tired of the party's antics and didn't like the leader.

Despite their poor election results, I still see them as a sleeping giant if they can motivate more people to vote. Not going to happen with Dion, or if they force an election though. They should have waited before pulling this crap.

I agree. That is what the Tories have to do...continue to move to the center so that the Blue Liberals do consider them an alternative again. This is where they need an Stronauch-esque defection from the Liberals into their own ranks. A couple of high profile Blue Liberals joining the Tories ranks splits the liberal party and you likely now have a right of center party and a left of center party (canadian politics center of course). I think Harper played a dangerous personal game in this, I don't deny that, but I think the Liberals are playing a game that is dangerous for the entire party for years to come.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by troutman

What are people talking about? It is always an option in a multi-party system. We might not like it, but it is always a possibility, especially when the last government was a minority government.

So your ballot had all three parties mixed together in one place? Because mine didn't. In fact the idea of a coalition was shot down by the liberals during the election. Largely because they would have lost support in some regions. While I realize politicians lie all the time, I think a complete ideological overhall is past what considered expected. Given that they were clearly already considering this as plan B they should have been upfront about the possibility, letting voters chose. They didn't.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Michael Fortier lost his election bid, then was appointed to the Senate and the cabinet by Harper.

Were you this outraged then?

Yes.

Are you honestly trying to tell me you support May's potential appointment to the Senate on the grounds she supports the coalition?

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

The one thing you fail to consider is the BQ. How could someone outside of Quebec honestly justify voting for them. I think you'll see several liberal seats fall due to the fact that Little France has joined the circus. Also more right winged liberals may be angry over the fact that they have to deal with the socialist, so there goes a few more seats there.

I think that the Liberals are already at very close to their floor; the people who voted for them last time around are largely the 'vote liberal no matter what' category; the sort that will plug the fingers in their ears all the way to the voting booth. Most of those right-winged liberals already switched or stayed home as a result of Dion's soft leadership and his botched green shift platform.

[FanIn80]

I think I'll write Dion a letter offering him my support as well... in exchange for a Senate seat, that is.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Actually, since Dion campaigned on the promise that he would never form a Coalition with the NDP, the people who voted Liberal voted specifically against a coalition.

As for the people who voted for the Socialist Party or the Separatist Party... well... those parties have, historically, been ready to jump in either bed at a moment's notice, so I guess it can be argued that the people who voted for them voted in favour of bending over for anyone that wants to give them some power.

source?

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Jade

My guess: because the plans for a coalition were already in place (were before the last election likely), Harper found out, and decided this would come up on possible the most ridiculous grounds to topple a government ever. Can't be sure that's what happened, but it was clear that there was never a possibility of anyone working with the conservatives and they would overturn the election the first chance they get, so why make it a real issue.

That could be justified if the Liberals, who have the most seats in the coalition was in on it. But they did not jump onboard until after the funding proposal.

[simmer2]

The country voted for Conservatives, not a Liberal-NDP coalition. So much for a democratic country.

This coalition has brought to the forefront again Canada's poorly set up political system. We are too large a country and way too regional to be run the way we are.

The government should be less centralized and give more power to the provinces, thereby each addressing their own economic concerns themselves. Our system needs to become more like the Americans; right now our system is a hogwash of political systems that fails to produce any concrete results.