Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[Blaster86]

I had a good conversation with a long time Conservative voter who personally knows and has worked with Stephen Harper and a former NDP candidate from almost 10 years ago now. They both agreed that this is the end of the line for Harper. The Conservative lamented the fact that they hadn't captured a majority with two opportunities that they should have. He feels that Harper will never be able to push them over the top.

The NDPer (who is as liberal and left wing as they come) didn't offer much other than that he found it funny that a party that suffered historic losses in popularity would some how deem it's self fit to govern.

The more I hear on it, the more I hate it. This would be fine if the Liberal leader wasn't on his way out. This has zero chance for stability which means nothing is going to change. Just a different face to the same beast. What I can't stand is all the people saying it's against democracy. It's part of the Parliamentary system, it's all or nothing folks. You can't pick and choose what parts work for you and which don't.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by browna

Yes, nothing like the creation of a crown corporation to piss away money. Brought to you by the same authors of the Gun Registry.

Yes like some other horribly run crown corporations where all they do is piss away money:

CMHC
CanadaPost
Atomic Energy Canada
Business Development Bank Canada

Oh wait, all of those are highly successful...

Oops

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Non scientific poll, but 73% of Canadians are calling this a power grab.

An NDP-Liberal coalition would:

Reflect the will of the people

4675 votes (27 %)
Be nothing more than a power grab

12846 votes (73 %)


This raises so many questions on the legitimacy of government in this country. Only 1 in 4 people agree with the motives of the (eventual) governing body, yet it makes up roughly 60% of populace representation in this country.

It's hard to fathom how it is that such an unsupported action could be possible on a scale so grande. Everyone in Canada should be concerned about what's going on in Ottawa at this moment, their prosperity is directly at risk.

Also, that 'economic roundtable' the Liberals want to put together is a complete disaster in waiting. Goodbye private investment.

I'm personally sickened that such a soft, flip-flopping individual is going to represent my views as a Canadian for the whole world to see.

link

I knew that was a ctv poll even before looking at the link. You can always tell by just how lame and useless the poll is.
Here's an example.
Would Canadians like to see a government change?
Would Canadians like to eat ground puppy?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

Yes like some other horribly run crown corporations where all they do is piss away money:

CMHC
CanadaPost
Atomic Energy Canada
Business Development Bank Canada

Oh wait, all of those are highly successful...

Oops

LOL...

[transplant99]

Surprised you didnt mention the CBC ronny.

Oops.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Surprised you didnt mention the CBC ronny.

Oops.

C'Mon now tranny...you arent espousing that private business doesnt know how to squeeze tax dollars out of our hands themselves do you?
Heres some old Calgary specific numbers...
The Saddledome was the first facility designed for the '88 Olympics. Originally slated to cost $83 million, it opened
in 1983 with a revised price tag of $100 million.
Canmore Nordic Centre
Original Cost: $14.3 million
Total Cost: $25.6 million

These are only two of the many facilities that sucked cash out of our pockets...the Volunteer Games, and for good reason.
Private enterprise is very good at finding ways to get more dollars out of a project than it deserves....Public enterprise is good at mismanaging. Neither are perfect and none of it means the Cons are better than any other party, or the people would see it and elect them. Most people actually get bad tastes in their mouth from money sucking private corporations.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

4675 votes (27 %)
Be nothing more than a power grab
12846 votes (73 %)

This raises so many questions on the legitimacy of government in this country. Only 1 in 4 people agree with the motives of the (eventual) governing body, yet it makes up roughly 60% of populace representation in this country.

I have to seriously question the credibility of someones posts when they cite AN ONLINE POLL and then base an entire rant based on said ONLINE POLL. If online polls were reliable then Ron Paul would be president of the United States.

[transplant99]

Ummm....OK.

Truth is, RP is trying to tell me that the Government is somehow a better choice to run businesses than private corporations. I say it a load of bunk.

I don't know about the "cons" comment as Im not sure how that fits into this particular discussion.

I do know that the less we use government funds on private enterprise situations, the better off everybody is. No question about that. Obviously there are certain things that th Gov't has to be involved in for the good of all, but not sure I want them with their hands on the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS that would be involved in managing a new insurance-employmmet program. A whole new level of bureaucracy.

You want more gov't in your life? Knock yourself out. I don't and Im entitled to feel that way especially with the bottomless pits that are the CBC and gun registry to name but two.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I have to seriously question the credibility of someones posts when they cite AN ONLINE POLL and then base an entire rant based on said ONLINE POLL. If online polls were reliable then Ron Paul would be president of the United States.

I don't disagree with what you are saying.

I do wonder though...what do you think the real numbers are?

IE: Among all Canadians, how many % wise do you think honestly supports this takeover of the government, and agrees that Stephane Dion shoul be PM and Jack Layton Deputy PM?

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I have to seriously question the credibility of someones posts when they cite AN ONLINE POLL and then base an entire rant based on said ONLINE POLL. If online polls were reliable then Ron Paul would be president of the United States.

The poll obviously shouldn't be taken to be scientific or an accurate cross-section of society, but it does show that a significant portion of the populace appears to be upset regarding this coalition. An online poll shouldn't be taken to mean much, but you can't dismiss the results completely.

- Does this mean that the "green shift" plan is being put back in place and will canadians be less tolerant of it now that the price of gas has dropped. This was Dion's big push for the first half of the election campaign afterall.

- If they were complaining about the conservatives running a deficit, how does pumping billions of dollars into the economy going to make a difference other than increase the deficit to higher numbers?

[ernie]

My hope right now is that I can sell and close on my house before the dollar completely tanks. I need a good portion of that money with me when i move to the states.

ON the poll no it isn't scientific but I do believe it. Why?

1) People voted liberal because they weren't the Tories but also because they weren't the NDP or Bloc. People voted NDP because they weren't the Tories but also because they weren't the Liberals or Bloc etc etc etc

2) There is significant voters base in all these parties that will not be happy with this coalition. In particular the blue liberals will be looking to put their support elsewhere a move further to the center by the conservatives will deal a severe blow to the liberal party for years to come.

3) from talking to people from a whole spectrum of poilitical ideologies the large majority is pissed off about this turn of events. Their thoughts are outlined by the first 2 points. Their are people in my company and building who typically treat their political views as very private and don't talk about things at all that are extremely vocal and upset.

This has another election written all over it. Be it in 6 weeks or 6 months, this coalition is not going to surivive. If something else doesn't destroy it then the Liberal leadership race will because candidates are going to be forced to differentiate themselves on where they stand with this deal. Some guys may be able to swallow a bitter pill right now but they won't stay silent once the race heats up and the blues and reds start to polarize.

[metallicat]

I just came home from working a night shift, and ran into a co-worker who put his two hands in the air and pumped them, asking what I thought of the three amigo's. Makes me want to puke.

[transplant99]

Does this mean that the "green shift" plan is being put back in place and will canadians be less tolerant of it now that the price of gas has dropped. This was Dion's big push for the first half of the election campaign afterall.

Dion says no. Its not part of the "deal" And we have to believe him since he doesn't lie.

Well except about forming a coalition with the NDP anyhow. Or well...other things.

Then again maybe he didn't understand the deal and needs to be told how it works, and then again...and then one more time?

[FanIn80]

I'm sorry, I don't understand the question. Can we please start over?

[metallicat]

Something I hadn't thought about: Alberta now only has ONE MP in power, and that is Linda Duncan of the NDP. How freaking sad is that? And in fact, Saskatchewan only has one as well, in Ralph Goodale with the Libs.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Ummm....OK.

Truth is, RP is trying to tell me that the Government is somehow a better choice to run businesses than private corporations. I say it a load of bunk.

I don't know about the "cons" comment as Im not sure how that fits into this particular discussion.

I do know that the less we use government funds on private enterprise situations, the better off everybody is. No question about that. Obviously there are certain things that th Gov't has to be involved in for the good of all, but not sure I want them with their hands on the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS that would be involved in managing a new insurance-employmmet program. A whole new level of bureaucracy.

You want more gov't in your life? Knock yourself out. I don't and Im entitled to feel that way especially with the bottomless pits that are the CBC and gun registry to name but two.

Well I dont...but lets face it, the Liberals and Conservatives are almost two peas in a pod. Thats why there is little to no diff in the way Canada is run when either of these parties rule. The ONLY issue with Canadian politics is that a PM can rule until the cows come home. They need a two term limit like the USA. That might change the face here quicker and perhaps stave off issues like we are in.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I have to seriously question the credibility of someones posts when they cite AN ONLINE POLL and then base an entire rant based on said ONLINE POLL. If online polls were reliable then Ron Paul would be president of the United States.

And CP's bastion of impartiality strikes again.

Rather than moan and whine about an online poll, find us a poll that shows there is any support for this coalition.

Online or not, every poll, vote or informal discussion I have seen on this power grab finds that Canadians are overwhelmingly opposed to it.

Some economists are predicting the loonie's going to take a hit as a result of this power grab.

So really, we have three parties trying to claim they are doing this for Canadians and the economy, while Canadians have made it abundantly clear they are not in support of this and economists worry about the impact.

This coalition exists to serve no-one but itself. You can try and throw any kind of partisan spin on it you want, DA, but you simply can't escape that fact.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Jagger

So I understand that the Liberals in Parliament gave Duceppe a standing ovation today. A man who wants to break up Canada, a standing O. I'm sorry but that's just sickening and wrong on so many levels. The Liberals should be ashamed of themselves.

I'd like to know when treason stopped being a crime and when they no longer hung traitors.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

And CP's bastion of impartiality strikes again. Rather than moan and whine about an online poll, find us a poll that shows there is any support for this coalition.

The ONLY scientific poll taken thus far was the one from La Presse. And I already posted that. You can't point to garbage online polls and say that they are acurate until scientific polls can be taken. Online polls are garbage, garbage, garbage and are always garbage.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I'd like to know when treason stopped being a crime and when they no longer hung traitors.

I was wondering that myself with all the people here wanting to separate.