QC Fans...are things really that bad?

[Jetsfan]

As a Flames fan in Calgary I pay close attention to what is going on in QC. Hoody, dobbles, PIMking, Drunk Skunk, Sparky One you guys have been awesome with your updates and your frank opinions of the QC Flames.

Given the Flames poor record, GM Suter's recent comments on attendance, McGills comments on development being a hire priority then winning and three staff members being let go my question is do you really believe the Flames will be leaving QC after this season?

I ask this because QC seems like such a good fit in terms of a modern building, proximity to division rivals and the development of QC alumni like Prust, Boyd, Pardy, MacEllheny & Nystrom who now play in Calgary.

Thanks!

[dobbles]

personally i don't see them leaving yet. i believe the agreement with local ownership is for 3 years after this one. not sure of any penalty the flames would incur for leaving the deal early.

personally, i think the biggest problem is attendance. until the team can make money, we will always have to worry about losing the team. additionally, if we can show we are a viable market, if the flames do leave, we as a community will hopefully be able to pick up another affiliation. getting more people in the door is a complicated issue. we have discussed many a things amongst us fans, but a perfect solution is not something thats just gonna happen.

one of the parts however is the success of the team on the ice. some qc fans think the only way to get fans back is to put together a bunch of championship runs as thats what packed in the fans in the 90's. as someone who wasn't around for that, i can't totally dismiss it, but to me i think thats somewhat of an overstatement. i think their past success was due to the newness of hockey. the fact that the team was so good added to it, but wasn't the driving factor. so yes i do think that having a successful team will help, but not totally integral.

so far the team has been pretty hohum. the hardest part is not that they don't win every night, but they often look like an echl team... the PP regularly looks like a PK unit, and we can go games without any sort of scoring touch. part of me does think it kind of aligns with sutter liking those hard working canadian boys that aren't necessarily great scorers. a lot of people say we are too dedicated to development and don't have veteran ringers like other teams. i personally don't feel that way as last year we had stevenson and kolanos, and this year we have lundmark, eriksson, and vandermeer. i just think at this point we don't have enough players with enough skill to be a top team. that can change overnight in the ahl though as new prospects arrive and old ones leave. i think its a combination of not having those offensive minded guys and others just not playing up to expectations. as fans, we like to think that every prospect is on his way to the big club, but sometimes they just don't pan out...

in summary, i think the team will be here at least another year unless local owners are losing too much money. we could use more fans but there is no magic solution. a winning team is part of that. but right now we just don't have the parts to win a championship

[Canada 02]

QCSV spent $1M on the franchise fee, $1.5M on renovations to the arena and was in the hole about $0.5M last season in operating expenses (my guess based on the assumption they needed 4000 fans to break even but averaged just 3500 fans at $25 per person, per game for tickets, concessions, parking etc)

So they've sunk ~$3M into this so far; given the current average attendance of 2700/game, they could lose another $1.3M this season

The Omaha Knights lost $4M before they moved, so things certainly don't look good.

Having said that, the Calgary Flames only pay player salaries and related expenses; QCSV is on the hook for all business operating expenses, so the survival of the Flames in QC really depends on QCSV pocket book. They are in the second year of a 5 year deal; given the previous failed attempts to bring AHL hockey to QC, I can't see QCSV cutting their losses just yet.

Ultimately, the on ice product will go a long way to keeping this team in QC; fans want to see winners; if they can get into the playoffs this year and have 3+ sold-out/big crowd playoff games and a simulataneous season ticket drive that drastically improves on their current season ticket base, QC Flames will survive

[PIMking]

QC doesnt get any money from concessions and parking. its all on merch and ticket sales.

also did you look at early season attendance last year? its only 700 more people and if the team starts winning at home things will be better.

[pioneer98]

Originally Posted by Canada 02

QCSV spent $1M on the franchise fee, $1.5M on renovations to the arena and was in the hole about $0.5M last season in operating expenses (my guess based on the assumption they needed 4000 fans to break even but averaged just 3500 fans at $25 per person, per game for tickets, concessions, parking etc)

So they've sunk ~$3M into this so far; given the current average attendance of 2700/game, they could lose another $1.3M this season

The Omaha Knights lost $4M before they moved, so things certainly don't look good.

Having said that, the Calgary Flames only pay player salaries and related expenses; QCSV is on the hook for all business operating expenses, so the survival of the Flames in QC really depends on QCSV pocket book. They are in the second year of a 5 year deal; given the previous failed attempts to bring AHL hockey to QC, I can't see QCSV cutting their losses just yet.

Ultimately, the on ice product will go a long way to keeping this team in QC; fans want to see winners; if they can get into the playoffs this year and have 3+ sold-out/big crowd playoff games and a simulataneous season ticket drive that drastically improves on their current season ticket base, QC Flames will survive

Everyone keeps citing that 4,000 fans/game figure because it was mentioned in an article once by Tim Taylor. It's not an exact figure, and it was also based on last year's ticket prices, which are higher this year. I'd also point out that right now, 15 teams in the AHL are under 4,000/game. This will probably change after Christmas like it always does.

The arena the QC Flames play in is extremely successful even with the Flames' attendance problems. In fact, I think every year of the building's existence except for 1 it made a profit (the one year it didn't, it was only a slight loss). Many AHL arenas have to be subsidized. I think the building could do a little more to help the Flames if needed.

We've made the comparison many times on here already, but I think the Flames would be wise to take a page from the QC baseball team the River Bandits. They lowered ticket prices, had a promotion for every game, and had things like bands playing after Saturday games. The point is to give people another reason to come out than to see a team make a championship run. The Flames have wisely been appealing more to kids, with the national anthem and the youth jersey giveaway which was a hit. But there have been still too many games with really no promotions.

Winning more will always help attendance, but minor league sports can be a tough sell. I mean, no one even goes to a River Bandits games to see them win, but they created a fun atmosphere and did quite well. The Flames need to create their version of this to get them through the tough times. If they start winning, then they'd be in an even better position.

[SparkyOne]

I don't think we have to ice a championship team to draw fans (though it prbly would help!!), but I think there has to be a little more consistency and motivation on the ice. Wednesday night the crowd was obviously aching to get into it....when the Flames scored their three goals in 8 minutes, the place erupted! Especially after the third goal to tie it up. But their play the first two periods was disorganized and unimpressive. Quad Cities has knowledgable hockey fans for the most part. They definitely know the difference between good and bad. I think they'd be happy with good if it was consistent.

Attendance will pick up after Christmas. It always does. And if the team can go into that period playing well (again, not necessarily constant wins, but some winning and excellent play even in losses), and if there can be a few more ticket promotions to lower prices in a horrid economy, they could still pull it out easily this season. There's stil something like 30 home games left to get it done.....

I was unhappy with Sutter's comments because of the play we've seen on the ice. I'm 110% behind this team, but you can't give fans crap and expect them to accept it. A couple of the games we've seen at home this season were equal to or worse than what we saw from the UHL. Whereever the problem lies, that's unacceptable.

I don't think the team will be gone next season, either. But, depending mostly on the economy, one can only wonder how long QCSV can continue to sink money into the operation and not see positive results! I think it has to be a team thing on and off the ice....Calgary has to realize what's expected of them, just as they have expectations from the QC operation.

[pioneer98]

Originally Posted by SparkyOne

I don't think the team will be gone next season, either. But, depending mostly on the economy, one can only wonder how long QCSV can continue to sink money into the operation and not see positive results! I think it has to be a team thing on and off the ice....Calgary has to realize what's expected of them, just as they have expectations from the QC operation.

Unless I missed something, the Sutter comment was one sentence that made the papers saying he wished the guys were playing in front of more people. I didn't think it was meant as a slam on our fans, but I can understand why people would be nervous, with the history of the franchise and the rumors.

The game coming up on Friday (12/5) is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. They have a great promotion with the team photo giveaway set up, which has been on the schedule since it came out. Great! But here a week before the game we are just now finding out it is also:
1. Kids safety day (whatever that is?)
2. 1/2 price admission for college students with college ID
3. $3 off admission with a toy donation for Toys for Tots.

These are all great promotions! I just wish they had been on the schedule since it came out so that the word could have gotten out better and people could have planned accordingly (this is what the River Bandits would have done). Instead, they have 1 week to get the word out about all this. I'll do my best to spread the word, but more time sure would have helped.

[SparkyOne]

I was talking to the front office guys on Friday night and I'm guessing that they're trying to do what the guy who's gone now didn't....creating promotions to bring fans through the doors. They told me that they were trying to get another cowbell promotion, but that things are tight for Swiss Valley. I suggesting adding another sponsor...

Thus, I'd say the reason these weren't on the schedule earlier was because they didn't exist earlier. This is where we miss Wendlund....he would have had something in the paper. The new guy just isn't doing the same quality job and it shows. There used to ALWAYS be an article on Tuesdays....now it's pretty hit and miss. I wouldn't even know who this new reporter is if he came up and klunked me on the head!!!