Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[Ronald Pagan]

Who would have guessed that 5 weeks after the election we'd be talking about Harper resigning. Amazing.

[flamesaresmokin]

This is complete bs. We waste millions of dollars to change absolutely nothing and then we get to have the vote made for us by a bunch of whiners....but we will call it a democracy.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by ken0042

I wonder what would be the result if they put an "old school" Progressive Conservative person in as leader instead of a former Reform Party Member. Like Peter McKay- ok maybe not him specifically. Somebody like Mulroney who fits the following criteria:

- Is from Quebec
- Speaks French without an English accent
- Speaks English without a French accent.
- Was a member of the PC party prior to the merger.

That may be what is needed for the CPC to get a majority. I like Harper, and I like him as my PM. But this isn't about what Alberta wants- it has to be about the entire country.

Personally I doubt its possible to ever gain a majority, with the Bloc party in Quebec it makes it nearly impossible for the NDP or Liberial or PC to get enough support.

Another election if it happens is totally pointless.... it does nothing but cost millions of dollars no matter who leads the party (PC or Liberal) IMO.

[Ronald Pagan]

As I stated before I don't know that the coalition is a good thing at all (and personally I have doubts as to whether it comes to fruition). But Harper knew what he was doing here. He was acting as though he had a majority and quite simply he does not.

As Bob Dylan said: "If you're going to live outside of the law, you must be honest."

[Jade]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I realize that, which is why it's scary that Harper hasn't been able to give a straight answer on what the government plans to do. January is coming up quickly, and there is no reason to not say what his plans are.

And you don't think that this could have anything to do with the fact that, as has been noted by those supporting this little coup, he has a minority government? As has been mentioned, he can't put things through on his own. The conservatives will come up with their ideas, and have to work out details with other parties to get things passed. It's called compromise, something the liberals aren't interested in doing unless they are leading, whether they were elected or not.

[transplant99]

I'm not saying that he should leak the whole budget, but telling Canadians at least in a general fashion how it will work in terms of the special precautions/actions that will be taken as they pertain to the recession would not be that radical of an idea. Like I said, a lot of countries have already done this and didn't have to wait for their next budgets.

He doesn't know yet...jeezuz...how could he when he is just getting the recommendations now...as well as waiting to see what happens in the USA. Like or not if Canada does anything in opposition to where they go (USA), that money is nothing but dust in the wind to prop up some overblated pension somewhere or in a job creation scheme that will end up with a bunch of people making things for a market that does not exist.

ANd no...other countries DO NOT have a plan yet. Hell other than Citibank, the uS still doesnt know who is going to get what money. They arent even sure that the auotmakers will get bailed out yet, nevermind who gets what.

Fanny and Freddy will get releif, no question, but beyond that......

This is exactly where I have a departure from sympathy for Harper. He knew what he was doing in trying to cut the funding for his opponents. He knew full well that these subsidies were the lifeline of the other parties. I think that this was a calculated gamble on his part

Fine...but since it isnt happening...

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

As Bob Dylan said: "If you're going to live outside of the law, you must be honest."

Ummm....what "law" is Harper living outside of?

[flylock shox]

I don't think this is as bad a move for the coalition parties as many here seem to think.

First off, the Conservative proposals (particularly with respect to those proposals they've already retracted) smack of just the kind of controlling neo-con arrogance that Canadians have feared and which kept them from a majority in the last election. The simple fact is that Canadians roundly rejected every party other than the Conservatives last election, and they still couldn't get a majority because most Canadians still don't trust them. Their early proposals (especially cutting back federal funding which they knew would most detrimentally affect the other parties) merely confirmed to many Canadians exactly what they already suspected: Harper would govern in an arrogant, dictating, non-collaborative manner if he had the mandate to do so.

Secondly, the move is a sign of exactly what the Liberals lacked in the last election: strength. Dion was rightly criticized for lacking leadership and appearing, well, wussy. The Liberals don't look so wussy now, and with a new leader could be a lot more appealing come the next election.

Third, collaboration between the Liberals and NDP may bring some of the more leftist thinkers in from the cold, and encourage the two parties to collaborate in the future even after the coalition outlives its usefulness.

And this is not a coup d'etat - it's exactly how our democracy was designed to work. Personally, having forced Harper's hand on key issues I think the coalition would be wise to let the government stay in power under the threat of a non-confidence vote, something which would allow the Liberals time to re-establish themselves under new leadership and form a more viable opposition for the next election.

I think forecasts of (a) an election, and (b) a conservative majority as a result of such an election are very, very premature.

What's certain though is that this is going to be very, very, interesting.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I'd love to see a poll added to this thread.

1. Liberal/Socialist/Separatist Coalition
2. Election

How about 1 followed quickly by 2? Probably the only chance of a majority government ruling Canada in the forseable future.

[flamesfever]

I think when cooler heads prevail, there will be enough Liberals who decide to stay away from the confidence vote to allow the Conservatives to stay in office. This would be done to avoid the pitfall of forming a highly unstable and contentious coalition.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Who said anything about a stimulus package being the answer I was looking for? Not me...

I don't even care what his plan is to deal with the economic and social problems we are going to see, I just want something more substantial and thought out than, "we'll wait and see".

When Canadians voted last time, things were not as bad as they are now, and people want some reassurance from their leaders - and they aren't getting it.

They do? Most people I talk to aren't idiots. They have planned for an economic downturn. This is a bunch of politicians trying to make a big deal. The liberals lost so many votes there heads were spinning and apparently that makes them worthy of governing? Things haven't changed very much in a few weeks. If anyone thinks so they are only kidding themselves.

Sure its in our system but this system is flawed. People didn't vote liberal because they don't have confidence in them and don't want to be represented by them or the guy in the suit that can't speak english.

No more proof needed to see our electoral system is a complete joke.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Jade

And you don't think that this could have anything to do with the fact that, as has been noted by those supporting this little coup, he has a minority government? As has been mentioned, he can't put things through on his own. The conservatives will come up with their ideas, and have to work out details with other parties to get things passed. It's called compromise, something the liberals aren't interested in doing unless they are leading, whether they were elected or not.

What does that have to do with Harper not giving the public straight forward answers? Yes, he has to compromise with other parties, but that does not mean that he cannot say what his government hopes to do in the new year.

BTW, I think it's funny that you would say that the Liberals don't want to compromise considering that they are the ones (not the Conservatives) who are actively trying to form a coalition with another party. That right there, is a bigger gesture of compromise than anything the Conservative party has done lately. Is it just that they are planning to compromise with the NDP and not the Conservatives that you see as a problem?

[Jade]

Originally Posted by Slava

This is exactly where I have a departure from sympathy for Harper. He knew what he was doing in trying to cut the funding for his opponents. He knew full well that these subsidies were the lifeline of the other parties. I think that this was a calculated gamble on his part.

He has pushed for confidence votes time and time again through his past government and this was no different. He figured that because the Liberals are in the midst of a leadership campaign and the appetite for another election is not there, that he could be safe in trying to crush his opponents fiscally. They called his bluff...and he left himself exposed by not acting faster on a stimulus package.

As I stated before I don't know that the coalition is a good thing at all (and personally I have doubts as to whether it comes to fruition). But Harper knew what he was doing here. He was acting as though he had a majority and quite simply he does not.

He knew he neede to cut money from somewhere, and figured the liberals little cash grab was a good place to start. It amazes me how little people are bothered by the liberals attempt to take money they aren't entitled to. Yes, the Liberals need that money since they don't get financial support from those who supposedly support them and they can no longer flat out steal it, but that doesn't mean the idea was a good one. Unlike the liberals and NDP, he acted according to the spirit of the process. He came up with an idea, it didn't work out and he backed off.

It's actually kind of sad that this is the issue that the liberals chose to use to 'justify' the power grab that evidence from the leaked tapes suggests was already underway. Sadder still that their supporters actually think that this is a good justification.

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Ummm....what "law" is Harper living outside of?

The 'law' in this sense is parliament. He was living outside of it by governing like he had a majority when he did not. He was dishonest when he tried to plug partisan poison pills into the economic update.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

. The simple fact is that Canadians roundly rejected every party other than the Conservatives last election, .

ANd yet who ends up with the power...and thats a democracy?

Laughable.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Fine...but since it isnt happening...

Exactly! This is now nothing more than a schemed up power grab that is not supported by the will of the people.

I can't wait to see what the polls say about this.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

The 'law' in this sense is parliament. He was living outside of it by governing like he had a majority when he did not. He was dishonest when he tried to plug partisan poison pills into the economic update.

LOL!!


OK then...hilarious.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by peter12

But when does the rest of the country care about what the West wants?

Never.

I guess for me part of being an Albertan is the acceptance that one of the trade-offs of living in the best province in Canada is that we don't have as much of a say in how the rest of the country operates.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

The 'law' in this sense is parliament. He was living outside of it by governing like he had a majority when he did not. He was dishonest when he tried to plug partisan poison pills into the economic update.

Um... that has nothing to due with a law rather thats an opinion.

[flamesaresmokin]

Originally Posted by transplant99

ANd yet who ends up with the power...and thats a democracy?

Laughable.

Lol with this kind of thing allowed this isn't even remotely close to a democracy, not in my books.