Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Sorry, dude. But you're wrong. Canadians elected the CPC because they were going to take their time and deal with this properly, NOT jump around and thrown money at everything that moves.

This BS stimulus package that the Socialists are demanding is the absolute worst thing we can do right now. At least until after we see what the US is doing with the Auto industry in the States.

Who said anything about a stimulus package being the answer I was looking for? Not me...

I don't even care what his plan is to deal with the economic and social problems we are going to see, I just want something more substantial and thought out than, "we'll wait and see".

When Canadians voted last time, things were not as bad as they are now, and people want some reassurance from their leaders - and they aren't getting it.

[Boblobla]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Yeah, unfortunately online polls are worth about as much as the paper they're printed on.

Especially since the people who comment on the CBC are the left wing out of work autoworkers who want an increase to their social support cheques...

[Slava]

Originally Posted by moon

So long as your pretty sure I guess we should all just take that as fact.

I voted for the Conservatives but would not be that pleased at all with a Liberal-Conservative coalition and would be 100% against a Consevative-NDP coalition.

Now that is just one vote but seeing the posts in this thread alone to your stupid post about voters supporting coalitions just because they support one of the parties I would say that there are many more people that would be like me.

The policies/actions of a Liberal party is totally different from one that is in a coalition with the NDP and Bloc so there is no way that you can just assume that a voter supports said coalition just because their party is involved.

^ So basically as long as the CPC are in sole power you're good with that, but nothing else, right?

[moon]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ So basically as long as the CPC are in sole power you're good with that, but nothing else, right?

Based on the last election yes that is what I was saying with my vote.

I wasn't voting on the basis that the Conservatives would be forming a coalition with other parties. My vote in that election does not reflect any support for them to form a coalition with other parties that would involve those parties receiving cabinet positions.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Slava

^ So basically as long as the CPC are in sole power you're good with that, but nothing else, right?

And the CPC get to have sole power despite 62.4% of Canadians voting for other parties.

As the election laws in this country work, the Conservatives got to be in power because they won the most seats, however they didn't win enough for a majority. Now a group of parties who hold more seats in total than the conservatives want to take power.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I'd love to see a poll added to this thread.

Which hole would you like our political system to make sweet love to you in?

1. Existing hole
2. New hole

Fixed.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

That proves my point. "Waiting and seeing" is not a plan. People have been asking some pretty simple questions lately, and his answer of "it will be addressed in the next budget" does not answer any of that and it really isn't acceptable. He needs to be a little more forthcoming in his responses to what could be the biggest issue in this country in the past 30 years. Either he isn't confident in what he plans to do, or he isn't sure.

"Our plan is to wait and see what happens, and then we will react to it..." ... yeah, right. I'm sure if a Liberal said the same thing, it wouldn't be perceived in such a positive light.

No, they are not waiting and seeing. They are still putting the plan together.

Don't be naive and narrow it down to those two options. While yes, they are possible, it is much more likely that this plan is still coming together.

Just because you want one now does not mean its the right time. How dare they take time to make sure they properly spend billions of your dollars on the economy. It's better to do is hastily than it is to do it properly, right?

I mean, darn, if only we were like the Yanks who put up $700 billion and then flipped on their plans of how to spend it.

[guzzy]

If the tories are defeated it will be a truly sad day to be a Canadian. What is the point of elections when the "coalition" can just topple the govt. Why did we vote?

The NDP and liberals have been planning this long before the news of slashing funding. Now they have just been given the ammo.

How can the "coalition" even defend their stance by saying the govt has done to little to protect the ecomony? There isn't a person alive that can stop the economy from doing what it is doing. The US screwed the whole world and the enitre world will pay for a few years.

This whole process disgusts me to no end. Canada didn't elect a liberal govt for a reason, therefore why should they be allowed to topple and take over. What a joke...this isn't democracy

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Fixed.

I like how you've encapsulated the way in which both choices are terrible.

In all honesty, I really do believe everything will work out. But I'm an optimist.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Who said anything about a stimulus package being the answer I was looking for? Not me...

I don't even care what his plan is to deal with the economic and social problems we are going to see, I just want something more substantial and thought out than, "we'll wait and see".

When Canadians voted last time, things were not as bad as they are now, and people want some reassurance from their leaders - and they aren't getting it.

You do know that his budget in January will have all the recommendations of the G20 meetings right? It will also have all of the recommendations of the Provinces too.

It's pretty neat to have a Government that is aware of our place in the Global Economy, and uses the recommendations of the global community when coming up with a plan of action. It's also pretty awesome that our Government took the time to find out the concerns of all of the Provinces and Territories, making sure to include their input in this upcoming budget.



Ohhhhh wait... no never mind. I forgot, it's much much better to just jump up and down, screaming really loudly about the planet going to hell and then throw 30 billion dollars at car manufacturers.

My bad.

[North East Goon]

I can't seem to getthis song out of my head:

"What we've got here is a failure to communicate.
Some men you just can't reach...
So, You get what we had here last week,
which is the way he wants it!
N' I don't like it any more than you men."

*Look at your young men fighting
Look at your women crying
Look at your young men dying
The Way they've alway's done before...

[moon]

Originally Posted by driveway

And the CPC get to have sole power despite 62.4% of Canadians voting for other parties.

As the election laws in this country work, the Conservatives got to be in power because they won the most seats, however they didn't win enough for a majority. Now a group of parties who hold more seats in total than the conservatives want to take power.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

What does this have to do with voters support for the coalition?

Nobody in Canada voted for a NDP-Liberal coalition so that combo has a proven support of exactly 0%. 100% of people voted for other options than the Liberal-NDP coalition.

You can't simply transfer votes from the parties and assume that they equal support for the coalition. There are already posters in this thread that voted for one or the other and don't support the coalition.

[transplant99]

Unbelievable.

I am truly re-thinking my move back now.

A leader of the Libs who garnered the lowest suppoprt in Canadian Liberal history at the federal level has pretty much just succeeded in taking away a mandate given to someone else by the Canadian electorate.

Awesome.

Does ANYONE else think that maybe, just maybe, before the Liberals go barnstorming their way to this, that they may just give the MP's a couple weeks to gauge the support among their constituents for such abrazen/precedent setting move??? I mean seriously...what would it hurt to even wait til Jan 5th or so and let their staffers take calls/emails/letters from those who voted for them on something THIS monumental?

Oh right....its been planned for weeks...I forgot.

[C_Rush]

Question:

Dion becomes PM until May when the Liberals hold leadership convention and elect new leader (presumably Ignatieff). Now there's a new leader and PM of Canada (unelected by the general public) much like Martin taking over after Chretien retired. Does the new leader call a general election next fall to seek a mandate?

[Ronald Pagan]

Originally Posted by C_Rush

Question:

Dion becomes PM until May when the Liberals hold leadership convention and elect new leader (presumably Ignatieff). Now there's a new leader and PM of Canada (unelected by the general public) much like Martin taking over after Chretien retired. Does the new leader call a general election next fall to seek a mandate?

Most likely. Provided the coalition holds.

There's still long odds on this happening.

Harper will prorogue before he loses confidence.

[Frequitude]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

The best we have are very unscientific online polls at CTV and CBC. Right now, it appears the coalition would be rather unpopular, but have a Canadian majority of support (around 35-40%)

I'm going to jihad the crap out of every online media poll that I can find.

[C_Rush]

Harper scrapping for his life here....

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by C_Rush

Question:

Dion becomes PM until May when the Liberals hold leadership convention and elect new leader (presumably Ignatieff). Now there's a new leader and PM of Canada (unelected by the general public) much like Martin taking over after Chretien retired. Does the new leader call a general election next fall to seek a mandate?

Good question. I'd guess they could wait as long as the 30 months, but in the real world everything depends on the political environment. If it looks good for the Liberals we'd probably see an election sooner rather than later. If it looks bad for them, we would get to wait a little longer.

I'd just as soon not see an election for a while. It's time for these jokers to get to work. Harper had better be exploring his options. If he doesn't have a game-changing trick or two up his sleeve, his political career just might be coming to a very ignominious end. I can't see the CPC going into another election with a guy who a) couldn't win a majority against a fractured and terrible opposition and b) pissed away his mandate on an unnecessary confidence motion that he only tabled in order to play chicken with his political opponents.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Does ANYONE else think that maybe, just maybe, before the Liberals go barnstorming their way to this, that they may just give the MP's a couple weeks to gauge the support among their constituents for such abrazen/precedent setting move??? I mean seriously...what would it hurt to even wait til Jan th or so and let their staffers take calls/emails/letters from those who voted for them on something THIS monumental?

Haven't you read some of the responses from the coalition supporters in this thread regarding economic stimulus? They don't want a well thought out plan. Heck, they don't even want a plan. They just want something... anything... to happen and they wanted it a week ago.

Act first. Think Later.

[Jade]

Originally Posted by driveway

And the CPC get to have sole power despite 62.4% of Canadians voting for other parties.

As the election laws in this country work, the Conservatives got to be in power because they won the most seats, however they didn't win enough for a majority. Now a group of parties who hold more seats in total than the conservatives want to take power.

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

The only problem with that is no one voted for a group of parties, they voted for a party. If the majority of candadians are getting two votes, why don't I? The party got the majority of the votes was the conservatives, and they should get the chance to govern. This is essentially a coup. The spirit of the election laws are that the party with the most votes gets to govern. If they don't have over half, they need to work with the other parties to try and make it work. If they can't agree, yes the other parties have the right to make a coalition and try to govern themselves. Unfortunately, in this case, the opposition didn't even try to make it work, they just went out and disregarded the voters decision. To me, they didn't follow the spirit of the laws, which is what makes this more like a coup than an elected government.