Coalition Deal To Topple Minority Tory Govt- [Update Parliament Prorogued until Jan]

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by redforever

If they stay home yet again, and exercise their apathy in this manner yet again, then they deserve exactly what they have right now.

They do, but I don't.

You're right of course. Selfishly I know all this stuff does is cost me money. Someone will reach deeper in my pocket to save power, gain power, whatever. The idea that it would continue scares the bejeesus out of me.

[Rifleman]

Originally Posted by Nehkara

The leader issue might be a thorny one with the Liberal leadership convention in less than 6 months in which Stephane Dion will be replaced. Maybe it would be better to have Jack Layton or someone other than Stephane Dion serve as PM until the new Liberal leader is decided.

Jack Layton as Prime Minister? I'd be laughing my @$$ off if my gag reflex wasn't working overtime right now.

[FlamesAddiction]

I don't think it's as big of a deal as some make it out to be, certainly not worth all the fear mongering. If the NDP get 25% of cabinet positions, there isn't going to be a mass exodus of employment because of it. There are several countries in Europe that have much stronger socialist contingents and guess what... people still have jobs. As it is right now, Canada stands to lose 100,000 jobs in the near future no matter who is in power. In reality, whatever government is in power is at the mercy of the American economy.

All this talk reminds me of how liberals were fear mongering that if Harper got in, he'd establish socially conservative bible based laws. It's all a bunch of garbage from all sides.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't think it's as big of a deal as some make it out to be, certainly not worth all the fear mongering. If the NDP get 25% of cabinet positions, there isn't going to be a mass exodus of employment because of it. There are several countries in Europe that have much stronger socialist contingents and guess what... people still have jobs. As it is right now, Canada stands to lose 100,000 jobs in the near future no matter who is in power. In reality, whatever government is in power is at the mercy of the American economy.

All this talk reminds me of how liberals were fear mongering that if Harper got in, he'd establish socially conservative bible based laws. It's all a bunch of garbage from all sides.

Right, but this present childish government will certainly add to the impact. Right now we sit very well in the G20, but with these shenaningans, it will weaken global faith in our ability to not only govern ourselves domestically but deal with the global downturn in the economy as well.

[Devils'Advocate]

According to La Presse, 76% of Quebecers support this coallition. They also report that Conservative support in the province has fall 7 points since the election, putting them at 15%, well behind the Bloc and the Liberals and tied with the NDP. Those that think that another election will result in a Conservative majority are quite mistaken.

Just because the Conservatives have put up the white flag does not mean that the coalition will not go ahead. The budget update simply proved that the Conservatives have no desire to work with the other parties and only wish to antagonize them. One pundit I was listening to this morning said that it just isn't in Mr. Harper to cooperate with others and from what I've seen that is true... he had absolutely no intention of reaching across the aisle. If the three opposition parties back down now, they will just be forced to do this again three, six, eight weeks from now when the Conservatives again throw in some omnibus bill containing things none of the opposition parties can agree to.

As for this "scary" NDP.... you guys sound like the Republicans "scared" of Obama. "He's gonna cause massive unemployment"; "He's a Marxist"; "The country is ruined". Get a grip. As for my economics background, I am 2 credits shy of my BComm Business Admin. including several economics credits (I never finished the BComm since my BSc. landed me a good job). Perhaps discussion on economics should be limited to those with full BComm's in Economics, but I think that would be a rather small subsection of the forum population.

BTW - "Dippers" is meant as an insult... it is used in a condescending insulting form in Canadian political blogs, forums and general conversation. It's a spawn off the racial epithet... see the urban dictionary. But since that sorta thing is welcomed here, I think we should all start calling those right of centre the "Cons" in the same manner.

[Ronald Pagan]

I would heartily welcome more in-depth economic talk beyond ludicrous assertions that Keynesianism is discredited.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

According to La Presse, 76% of Quebecers support this coallition. They also report that Conservative support in the province has fall 7 points since the election, putting them at 15%, well behind the Bloc and the Liberals and tied with the NDP. Those that think that another election will result in a Conservative majority are quite mistaken.

Just because the Conservatives have put up the white flag does not mean that the coalition will not go ahead. The budget update simply proved that the Conservatives have no desire to work with the other parties and only wish to antagonize them. One pundit I was listening to this morning said that it just isn't in Mr. Harper to cooperate with others and from what I've seen that is true... he had absolutely no intention of reaching across the aisle. If the three opposition parties back down now, they will just be forced to do this again three, six, eight weeks from now when the Conservatives again throw in some omnibus bill containing things none of the opposition parties can agree to.

As for this "scary" NDP.... you guys sound like the Republicans "scared" of Obama. "He's gonna cause massive unemployment"; "He's a Marxist"; "The country is ruined". Get a grip. As for my economics background, I am 2 credits shy of my BComm Business Admin. including several economics credits (I never finished the BComm since my BSc. landed me a good job). Perhaps discussion on economics should be limited to those with full BComm's in Economics, but I think that would be a rather small subsection of the forum population.

BTW - "Dippers" is meant as an insult... it is used in a condescending insulting form in Canadian political blogs, forums and general conversation. It's a spawn off the racial epithet... see the urban dictionary. But since that sorta thing is welcomed here, I think we should all start calling those right of centre the "Cons" in the same manner.

You have no idea what planet you are on if you compare the NDP to the Republicans. Republicans lean to the left on social issues, but are step change to the right of the Conservatives on economic issues. You really don't have much of a grip if you equate your party to Republicans.

And btw all you have to offer as proof that this coalition won't cripple Cdn economy is 'get a grip'?

Happy to have the economics discussion anytime you want. In the short term, the Canadian dollar will tank, international business will stop investing, and do something between hold on their investments to see what happens to simply pulling out of what will look like a banana republic, and when the NDP start throwing money around interest rates could fire up sharply.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

You have no idea what planet you are on if you compare the NDP to the Republicans. Republicans lean to the left on social issues, but are step change to the right of the Conservatives on economic issues. You really don't have much of a grip if you equate your party to Republicans.

Did you not have your morning coffee yet? I'm thinking you meant "Democrats"?

And btw all you have to offer as proof that this coalition won't cripple Cdn economy is 'get a grip'? Happy to have the economics discussion anytime you want. In the short term, the Canadian dollar will tank, international business will stop investing, and do something between hold on their investments to see what happens to simply pulling out of what will look like a banana republic, and when the NDP start throwing money around interest rates could fire up sharply.

The NDP have been campaigning on a balanced budget platform since the mid-80s. Your claims just sound like what the Republicans said about Obama. "Taxes will go up... businesses will leave... everyone will be unemployed" Nothing is further from the truth. In both cases.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Not really good IMO, since we are going to have a government and a leader that was NOT elected by the Canadian people.

There are so many constitutional changes need to be made in this country it is not even funny. They parties should need the concent of the people first of all to form a coalition. These guys still "represent" us don't they?

Brutal. Especially at a time like this. Really shows how unstable things are in this country.

[metallicat]

So much for the reports that Ignatieff was unhappy with this. Rae confirming on Canada AM this morning, that no discussion regarding a leader other than Dion was even considered in the ongoing talks.

This is getting more and more depressing. What are the odds that the Governor General surprises us all and calls for an election? Probably not good.

[Devils'Advocate]

If coalitions required the approval of the voters first, Italy, Germany, Norway, Sweden, etc, etc, etc would never have a governing body. Minority governments with parties working together to form policy is becoming the norm around the world.

-=-=-=-

One thing in this thread I find humourous. Bloc supporters are traitorous scum, but Albertan separatists are heros. Why do people here find no hypocrisy in this?

[ernie]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Selfishly: Will any of us have jobs?

I will...of course I'm relocating to the States.

My concern is how much will the dollar tank between now and February when I leave (how much of a hit am I going to take...I need some of the proceeds from my house sale?). I'm guessing with this coalition the dollar will drop significantly from the 80ish cents it is now.

[metallicat]

CTV News just said 30 billion dollars worth of a stimulus package almost immediately upon the coalition taking power.

[Ronald Pagan]

That would work to ease financial markets which would probably be in turmoil if the Government lost confidence.

Amazing turn of events. We are all witnessing an important moment of Canadian history if this coalition goes through. (although I am still doubtful... who would want to take the reigns during a time of uncertainty and economic blight? Why not let the Conservatives fall on their own sword?)

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

So much for the reports that Ignatieff was unhappy with this. Rae confirming on Canada AM this morning, that no discussion regarding a leader other than Dion was even considered in the ongoing talks.

This is getting more and more depressing. What are the odds that the Governor General surprises us all and calls for an election? Probably not good.

Whomever gets selected may only be an interim leader until a vote can be held by the new caucus. There's a good chance that Former NDP Premier Bob Rae will end up being the leader of the coalition. This is a coup d'etat.

[Ronald Pagan]

As has been iterated throughout this thread.

No, no it is not a coup d'etat.

[metallicat]

The CPC were not even given a chance to govern. They are being overthrown, regardless of how legal it is.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Ronald Pagan

As has been iterated throughout this thread. No, no it is not a coup d'etat.

I think it has to be re-iterated ever 3 posts. A coup d'etat is an UNCONSTITUTIONAL overthrow of a government. In this case, our parliamentry procedures are being followed to the letter. Westminster parliamentry rules allow, if not encourage parties to work together and form coalitions.

[ernie]

CTV also reporting that the coalition would be guided by an economic council.

The council would consist of 4 unelected people senior to the parties....Frank McKenna, Paul Martin, Roy Romanow and John Manley.

Not unexpected given the Liberals gave Chretien a negotiating role that the Chretien cronies, err old guard, are once again surfacing. Heck even the NDPer on the council is a close friend to Chretien.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by oilers_fan

The CPC were not even given a chance to govern. They are being overthrown, regardless of how legal it is.

If your first attempt at governing is to antagonize the other parties you are supposed to be working with YOU FAIL and deserve to be thrown out.