Did the Government fall today?

[Agamemnon]

I just saw a preview for Global claiming the Liberals lost a vote in the Commons today. The Conservatives claim its over. The Liberals say that it was just a vote-to-see-if-there-will-be-a-vote.

Did the government fall today? I'm surprised there's not a thread already, I fell like I'm missing something....

edit: CBC http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/20...vote050510.html

[Agamemnon]

Whoops, looks like it was a vote-to-see-if-there-will-be-a-vote.

Still, if they can't win this vote, do they have a chance of winning the next one? Seems slim...

[Winsor_Pilates]

Seems like what happend today was very confusing. The report I saw on global said they really wern't sure what it does and their political science guest said it technically doesn't count as a vote of confidence.
Anyway , the Libs said that there will be atleast 3 opportunities for the opposition to legitimately do it agian before the end of May. So the gov could be falling very soon.

[CaptainCrunch]

From what I understand it was a vote to compell the finance committee to recommend that the government dosen't have the confidence of the house. Apparently a real non confidence vote can be called when they table the budget, table the gay marriage vote, or during the opposition days at the end of the month that the government can very well cancel again.

Its kind of funny that the Gay Marriage vote could very well become the victim of the Liberal Scandal.

[metallicat]

I watched in live on CPAC and the House of Commons was a complete madhouse. Harper and Duceppe basically call for Martin to call an election immediately, and the Liberals begin talking about implementing some law regarding light houses. This corrupt government needs to go, but I don't trust the Canadian citizens to do their dity and boot them out of office.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by oilers_fan@May 11 2005, 03:24 AM
I watched in live on CPAC and the House of Commons was a complete madhouse. Harper and Duceppe basically call for Martin to call an election immediately, and the Liberals begin talking about implementing some law regarding light houses. This corrupt government needs to go, but I don't trust the Canadian citizens to do their dity and boot them out of office.

little ditty about Jean and Martin, two Canadian kids living in the Heart LAnd

Jean wants to be a golfing star

Martin's stuffing envelopes in the back of Jean's car

Oh yeah life goes on,
long after the thrill of stealin is gooone
Oh yeah, life goes on
long after the thrill of stealin is gonnne, they walk on

(sorry I couldn't resist after I saw the word dity in your post)

[metallicat]

LMAO, I didn't see my typo!!

[Looger]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4532329.stm

bbc has a bit of a tone in this one...

Governments in Canada have to resign if they are defeated in the House of Commons in a formal vote of confidence or over key legislative matters such as the federal budget.

[Thunderball]

Originally posted by Looger@May 11 2005, 05:40 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4532329.stm

bbc has a bit of a tone in this one...

Governments in Canada have to resign if they are defeated in the House of Commons in a formal vote of confidence or over key legislative matters such as the federal budget.

The British simply have a way of communicating the news well...

read the Q and A on the Canadian Political Crisis... very well done, and even a little backhanded too... "And not all opinion polls predict the Tories would win."

[Resolute 14]

Basically, yesterday proved that the Liberal Party of Canada is not interested in democracy.

I used to call Chretien a dictator, but he has nothing on Martin.

[FlamesAllTheWay]

Originally posted by Snakeeye@May 11 2005, 07:07 PM
Basically, yesterday proved that the Liberal Party of Canada is not interested in democracy.

I used to call Chretien a dictator, but he has nothing on Martin.

I'm inclined to agree. The fact that that vote passed, indicating the majority of constituencies do not support this government, should be enough for an election IMO. Not suprised that the Liberals will ignore it though, only to be expected.

Get these clowns out of power already...

[Nehkara]

In all honesty, I don't think the conservatives would be any different given the situation. Plus, even if the conservatives DO win the election they will only get a minority and will have to be allied with the Bloc... which probably won't fly for long. You'll see another Liberal government pretty soon after I'd bet.

[octothorp]

Originally posted by Snakeeye@May 11 2005, 06:07 PM
Basically, yesterday proved that the Liberal Party of Canada is not interested in democracy.

I used to call Chretien a dictator, but he has nothing on Martin.

Politics, even democracy (no, especially democracy), is a game, and all you're seeing right now is a lot of gamesmanship on both sides. The rules of parliment dictate that a government is required to yield power only when a confidence vote is lost. That has not yet happened. I'd equate it with a penalty in hockey. Some fans and members of the opposing team will yell, "Hey, team X crosschecked our player! Team X clearly is not interested in fair play." But fair play or not, crosschecking is part of the game and there are times when it's a valid action. There are rules and punishments built into the game. Same with politics. If the people of Canada decide that Martin is being arrogant and undemocratic, then they have every option to punish them during the upcoming election. If the people of Canada decide that the Conservatives are being whiny, they can chose to punish the Conservatives.

[Dynamic]

Nothing is gonna change with the Conservatives in power. You have that Harper guy( just looking at him makes me want to walk up to him and give him a swift kick to the head) accusing Martin of waiting til a few days to vote just beacuse a few conservative member are sick. When I first heard that I laughed, then realized harper was serious when he said it. That makes me cringe.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Dynamic@May 12 2005, 03:57 AM
Nothing is gonna change with the Conservatives in power. You have that Harper guy( just looking at him makes me want to walk up to him and give him a swift kick to the head) accusing Martin of waiting til a few days to vote just beacuse a few conservative member are sick. When I first heard that I laughed, then realized harper was serious when he said it. That makes me cringe.

Kinda like whenever I see Martin's smug face I want to give him a good swift kick in the butt. The fact that he's hoping that two conservatives and one independant who are undergoing treatment for cancer won't be there because thier undergoing chemo is disgusting, way to uphold the democratic process you piece of garbage (Martin, not anyone on this board)
.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+May 11 2005, 10:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ May 11 2005, 10:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Dynamic@May 12 2005, 03:57 AM
Nothing is gonna change with the Conservatives in power. You have that Harper guy( just looking at him makes me want to walk up to him and give him a swift kick to the head) accusing Martin of waiting til a few days to vote just beacuse a few conservative member are sick. When I first heard that I laughed, then realized harper was serious when he said it. That makes me cringe.

Kinda like whenever I see Martin's smug face I want to give him a good swift kick in the butt. The fact that he's hoping that two conservatives and one independant who are undergoing treatment for cancer won't be there because thier undergoing chemo is disgusting, way to uphold the democratic process you piece of garbage (Martin, not anyone on this board)
. [/b][/quote]
You just swallow anything the Conservatives throw out, don't you?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+May 11 2005, 11:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ May 11 2005, 11:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Dynamic@May 12 2005, 03:57 AM
Nothing is gonna change with the Conservatives in power. You have that Harper guy( just looking at him makes me want to walk up to him and give him a swift kick to the head) accusing Martin of waiting til a few days to vote just beacuse a few conservative member are sick. When I first heard that I laughed, then realized harper was serious when he said it. That makes me cringe.

Kinda like whenever I see Martin's smug face I want to give him a good swift kick in the butt. The fact that he's hoping that two conservatives and one independant who are undergoing treatment for cancer won't be there because thier undergoing chemo is disgusting, way to uphold the democratic process you piece of garbage (Martin, not anyone on this board)
. [/b][/quote]
The way I read it 2 Liberal MPs weren't around to vote and the independent Cadman, who is undergoing chemo, hasn't said which way he would vote.

It could have been a tie. Did the CPCs bring this thing up on a day when they knew they could win? If so, are they garbage as well?

I don't support either party but it really seems to me that the Liberals -- a political party -- are being hacked on for acting like a political party.

Would the CPCs do the same things? Yes, they would.

All this "that sonofabitch Martin is just trying to hold on to power grr grr grr" stuff is kind of odd. Really, what do you expect? Judging by the tone of a lot of posts, the only thing Martin can do to atone for his alleged sins is to walk into the local RCMP office and ask to be cuffed.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch+May 11 2005, 10:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (CaptainCrunch @ May 11 2005, 10:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Dynamic@May 12 2005, 03:57 AM
Nothing is gonna change with the Conservatives in power. You have that Harper guy( just looking at him makes me want to walk up to him and give him a swift kick to the head) accusing Martin of waiting til a few days to vote just beacuse a few conservative member are sick. When I first heard that I laughed, then realized harper was serious when he said it. That makes me cringe.

Kinda like whenever I see Martin's smug face I want to give him a good swift kick in the butt. The fact that he's hoping that two conservatives and one independant who are undergoing treatment for cancer won't be there because thier undergoing chemo is disgusting, way to uphold the democratic process you piece of garbage (Martin, not anyone on this board)
. [/b][/quote]
I'll bet Martin is actually counting on support from Cadman -- the independent with cancer. After all, if you had a high-paying job and didn't have to actually do anything for it while you were undergoing cancer treatment, would you vote to fire yourself?

Even if Cadman is so popular that he thinks he can get re-elected, do you think he wants to go through a campaign right now?

Yeah, I'm cynical.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Mike F+May 12 2005, 05:35 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Mike F @ May 12 2005, 05:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

Kinda like whenever I see Martin's smug face I want to give him a good swift kick in the butt. The fact that he's hoping that two conservatives and one independant who are undergoing treatment for cancer won't be there because thier undergoing chemo is disgusting, way to uphold the democratic process you piece of garbage (Martin, not anyone on this board)
.

You just swallow anything the Conservatives throw out, don't you? [/b][/quote]
Nope, but it seems pretty clear to me when one of them is in the last few days of his break from chemo, and the other guy is sitting at home getting treatment.

And to be honest I really don't believe anything a politician tells me, but this seems to be pretty clear

If Martin was a man of any kind of integrity, he would come to the realization that his party has had any kind of moral authority to rule removed, and his party rocked by scandal is a joke, and resign and call for an immediate election, but instead he's hanging on to power with desparation so he can try to buy an election result.

But integrity and Paul Martin are mutually exclusive.

[octothorp]

Cadman actually said that he very much appreciated that Martin formalized what day the confidence vote is going to happen, because it will allow him to plan ahead and make sure he's in Ottawa for that day; the sudden Conservative attempt to overthrow the government left him completely out of the process. Of course, he also said that fact would not be a determining factor in how he would vote. But it's an instance where what's fair to one MP is unfair to another.

With all the talk of how the liberals are taking advantage of cancer sufferers, I'm suprised that nobody has mentioned how the only reason the Conservatives and Bloc have a good chance of toppling the government is because of the unfortunate death (from cancer) of Lawrence O'Brien in the traditionally liberal seat of Labrador. If the Conservatives were showing true respect for cancer suffers, they wouldn't take advantage of the situation, and they would wait until after the May 24 byelection before trying to force a confidence vote. But of course, that would mean the government would need just two independents to support them to stay in power (as opposed to all 3). Extremely hypocritical of the Conservatives to be accusing the Liberals of taking advantage of cancer sufferers, when they are already taking advantage of a cancer death.