I Baptize Dead People

[Daradon]

Mormons are baptizing dead Jews at holocaust sites. Apparently they have been doing this for quite some time.

They only baptize ancestors of current Mormon members, believing the baptisms will help reunite the families in the afterlife.

People in the Jewish community however find the practice highly offensive. Especially given the circumstances.

'Michel suggested that posthumous baptisms of Holocaust victims play into the hands of Holocaust deniers.

"They tell me, that my parents' Jewishness has not been altered but ... 100 years from now, how will they be able to guarantee that my mother and father of blessed memory who lived as Jews and were slaughtered by Hitler for no other reason than they were Jews, will someday not be identified as Mormon victims of the Holocaust?" Michel said Monday.'

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/11/bap....ap/index.html

Apparently they baptize Catholics and other faiths as well.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Mormons are baptizing dead Jews at holocaust sites.

Nah, that's not true. It doesn't say they are doing that in the article.

Far as I know (which admittedly ain't much) they've been doing this posthumous baptism thing for a long time and it happens in their temple or church or whatever it's called.

You and I might even be on the holy-rolls after we kick off. I don't care. There are better things I think they could be spending their tax-free money on but it's no skin off my ass.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Nah, that's not true. It doesn't say they are doing that in the article.

Far as I know (which admittedly ain't much) they've been doing this posthumous baptism thing for a long time and it happens in their temple or church or whatever it's called.

You and I might even be on the holy-rolls after we kick off. I don't care. There are better things I think they could be spending their tax-free money on but it's no skin off my ass.

If you're not baptised in the Mormon church you're not saved.

Ohhhhh well....... We'll be so damn busy shaking hands with friends to know where we are

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Mormons.....this is just the tip of the iceberg.....I think they are nuts

[jammies]

Ah, when religious freedoms collide... good times, good times.

That's actually a pretty savvy idea from the Mormons. "Did you know Einstein was a Mormon? Yah, we baptized him last year, same ceremony we brought in Napoleon, FDR, Pope Leo XXIII, and Adbul Alhazred. Mormons built this city, brah!"

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Nah, that's not true. It doesn't say they are doing that in the article.

Far as I know (which admittedly ain't much) they've been doing this posthumous baptism thing for a long time and it happens in their temple or church or whatever it's called.

You and I might even be on the holy-rolls after we kick off. I don't care. There are better things I think they could be spending their tax-free money on but it's no skin off my ass.

Sorry I misspoke. They aren't doing it at the actual sites, but they are doing it.

I'd find it offensive it happened to me. I know it technically doesn't matter. But I'd want to be remembered (if I'm remembered at all) how I lived my life and the person I really was, not how my decendants wish to remember me. Besides, it's none of their business what religion I am anyway.

Lastly, it really messes up the history books. It almost feels like a conquest of sorts.

[Rathji]

The LDS church believes that you must be baptized to become a member. Baptism of the dead allows people who have died to have the opportunity to be baptized, since you can only be baptized when you have a mortal body, and dead people don't have that anymore.

Think of it as a guest list to get into a huge party at Stampede, if you are on the guest list you can get in if you show up. If you don't show up, who cares if your name was on the list?

I can see Holocaust survivors being upset though, since they don't believe in / fully understand the doctrine.

edit:

Lastly, it really messes up the history books. It almost feels like a conquest of sorts.

There is no actual change of religion. However, if this person is living in the afterlife somewhere and suddenly decides to join the LDS church, they can. At which point they would become Mormon...in the afterlife... which certainly would not affect any history books

[photon]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

Mormons.....this is just the tip of the iceberg.....I think they are nuts

That's pretty unfair, how are Mormons as any more or less nuts than anyone else? We're all pretty nuts.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Lastly, it really messes up the history books. It almost feels like a conquest of sorts.

I don't see how it messes up the history books. Maybe weird Mormon history books (and even that I doubt). We don't consider a non-Mormon a Mormon if they've been "baptized" after death.

If I were to find out this had been "done" to my grandparents, that wouldn't suddenly make them any different from who they were. They sure as hell weren't Mormons, and that ain't changed.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by photon

That's pretty unfair, how are Mormons as any more or less nuts than anyone else? We're all pretty nuts.

Agreed we are all nuts...to some degree. Personally I think religion is nuts and Mormons are the Chirpractors of relgion.....

If you look into their history it is a little odd:

1. Multiple Wives....are you nuts...I like to think this would lead to more sex...but we know better (granted, only the extreme fringe practise this know)
2. The whole issue with blacks....I think they felt for a time that blacks were "unclean" or some such nonsense....
3. Not drinking......you ever get stuck un a small town in Utah......believe me it is a long night......

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I don't see how it messes up the history books. Maybe weird Mormon history books (and even that I doubt). We don't consider a non-Mormon a Mormon if they've been "baptized" after death.

If I were to find out this had been "done" to my grandparents, that wouldn't suddenly make them any different from who they were. They sure as hell weren't Mormons, and that ain't changed.

The quote which I put on the post that started the thread seems to indicate that's what the Jewish people fear. That their fallen will be remembered as Mormon. Whether that fear is founded or not, I'm not sure. I'd be willing to trust them over what I know about the subject though. I could be wrong. There is some talk in the article about databases being changed though.

I wouldn't want my last record to read: Daradon, 1979-2028 Mormon. In ANY book.

And even if that didn't happen I still wouldn't want to be 'baptized' by proxy. I think it's a legitimate complaint.

[FlamesAddiction]

I think it's a pretty silly thing to do, but if it is their family members that they are doing it to, then I don't see how it's the business of anyone else.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I think it's a pretty silly thing to do, but if it is their family members that they are doing it to, then I don't see how it's the business of anyone else.

Hey we all have family members we don't like I'm sure. Just because someone is related to me doesn't mean I think they would have my best interests at heart.

And that would probably go double for family members that never met me.

I'd be more willing to trust the wishes and values of the people I was locked up in the camp with than someone from the new world with a new religion.

Lastly, there is no reason to. Just leave it alone. Why bother changing anything? The only thing the Jewish people are asking is that NOTHING be changed. Pretty simple and sane request I think.

[Thor]

You'd think they had better things to do.

[flip]

If anyone else has seen the fascinating PBS doc called Mormons then you'll know that not only is the whole religion a sham, like many others, (Joseph Smith invented Polygamy because he was caught having an affair with his 19 yo house maid and needed an excuse to get out of it) but they actually have a NORAD like vault in the side of a mountain with records of thousands if not millions of dead people where they are kept safely to be baptized to become Mormons.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

Mormons.....this is just the tip of the iceberg.....I think they are nuts

Of course you do.

You've read all the nonsense!

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

Agreed we are all nuts...to some degree. Personally I think religion is nuts and Mormons are the Chirpractors of relgion.....

If you look into their history it is a little odd:

1. Multiple Wives....are you nuts...I like to think this would lead to more sex...but we know better (granted, only the extreme fringe practise this know)
2. The whole issue with blacks....I think they felt for a time that blacks were "unclean" or some such nonsense....
3. Not drinking......you ever get stuck un a small town in Utah......believe me it is a long night......

1. Mormons were hardly the first of last religion to practice polygamy and they abandoned it over a hundred years ago.

2. The whole issue with blacks? You'll have to explain that one. Have other religions always been 100% inclusive?

3. Have you? Utah is not dry. You KNOW this right? SLC is one of the wildest partying towns I have ever been in too.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by flip

If anyone else has seen the fascinating PBS doc called Mormons then you'll know that not only is the whole religion a sham, like many others, (Joseph Smith invented Polygamy because he was caught having an affair with his 19 yo house maid and needed an excuse to get out of it) but they actually have a NORAD like vault in the side of a mountain with records of thousands if not millions of dead people where they are kept safely to be baptized to become Mormons.

Why would they have to keep records in a cave?

They have the permier genalogical library in the world which can be used by ANYONE for free. It's an exceptional resource for people who want to research their family history.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

1. Mormons were hardly the first of last religion to practice polygamy and they abandoned it over a hundred years ago.

2. The whole issue with blacks? You'll have to explain that one. Have other religions always been 100% inclusive?

3. Have you? Utah is not dry. You KNOW this right? SLC is one of the wildest partying towns I have ever been in too.

Although all the Mormons I've ever met have been great, fairly normal people, I must say there is a lot of weird culture, especially amongst the hardcore Mormons in Utah.

Not a particularly inclusive religion. Lots of underlying hatred of minorities and homosexuals. Weird covering up of their shoddy history including the Mountain Meadow Massacre and Joseph Smith being a shyster.

But like I said, with the exception of a few racists, all the Mormons I know are great people.

[flip]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

Why would they have to keep records in a cave?

They have the permier genalogical library in the world which can be used by ANYONE for free. It's an exceptional resource for people who want to research their family history.

It is literally to keep them protected. If there is a nuclear holocaust then baptizing the dead is even more important because Armageddon is even closer. Seriously find the PBS doc called Mormons, it was 2 or 3 parts and absolutely fascinating.