40th Canadian Federal Election - Welcome to another Conservative Minority (whee!)

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by peter12

Does anyone remember the way Preston Manning was denigrated from top to bottom about his defiency in the French language? What if Stephen Harper flubbed a question in French?

We have to apply these same principles here. Dion is incapable of a well-thought out response in English.

Bigotry against the majority is fine.

Bigotry against a minority gets you in trouble.

Dion has the good ole double standard working for him.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by peter12

Exactly. I don't mind that he personally doesn't speak good English. My French is not great at all. But he's running for a job where people's livelihoods and their lives can run on a single word and he clearly has difficulty comprehending.

If elected, he would be the Prime Minister of a British Commonwealth country with over 75% of its citizens that speak English as their primary language of communication in a continent of 65-70% of people who do as well. Having a complex understanding and level of communication in the language is a basic job REQUIREMENT.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by peter12

Exactly. I don't mind that he personally doesn't speak good English. My French is not great at all. But he's running for a job where people's livelihoods and their lives can run on a single word and he clearly has difficulty comprehending.

Not sure how that is. World leaders and diplomats who have differing languages are constantly meeting with one another. I can't think of any situation where people's livelihoods here in Canada depend on our PM's ability to think up an instant, well-worded response without asking for clarification.

Anyway, I'm very interested to see how this plays out in the polls. I can imagine this eroding Dion's support in western Canada, but Dion's leadership ratings aren't that high and many people voting Liberal aren't doing so because of leadership issues (which I keep saying is overrated as a voting motive). As well, if the Liberals counter it effectively, it could erode CPC support in Quebec if Harper's seen to unfairly criticize language difficulties.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

If elected, he would be the Prime Minister of a British Commonwealth country with over 75% of its citizens that speak English as their primary language of communication in a continent of 65-70% of people who do as well. Having a complex understanding and level of communication in the language is a basic job REQUIREMENT.

I can't believe I'm making excuses for Dion, because I'm absolutely not a fan of his, but you're wrong here. By law, he must be able to speak and understand one of Canada's two official languages, which he does fluently. It's right there in the Charter.

16. (1) English and French are the official languages of Canada and have equality of status and equal rights and privileges as to their use in all institutions of the Parliament and government of Canada.

[...]

17. (1) Everyone has the right to use English or French in any debates and other proceedings of Parliament.

[...]

18. (1) The statutes, records and journals of Parliament shall be printed and published in English and French and both language versions are equally authoritative.

As for the comments about "he has to speak perfect English to attend G7 meetings", do you not think they have professional translators?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I can't believe I'm making excuses for Dion, because I'm absolutely not a fan of his, but you're wrong here. By law, he must be able to speak and understand one of Canada's two official languages, which he does fluently. It's right there in the Charter.



As for the comments about "he has to speak perfect English to attend G7 meetings", do you not think they have professional translators?

Don't you think that there are a good deal of exchanges done at high-level leadership meetings in person without the intervention of translators? What about First Minister's meetings? What about NAFTA meetings?

It may not be a constitutional requirement, but it is certainly a practical requirement. People did not consider Preston Manning because of his lack of French language skills and even Harper was under the gun for awhile due to questions about his ability to speak fluent French.

[CaptainCrunch]

While by Law, the Prime Minister of Canada only has to speak one language, but the by law thing is not relevant. An English Candidate with poor language would get skewered in the press and by the Voters for not understanding or respecting all of Canada and its cultures and Language.

How long do you think Harper would last if he went to the French Language debate with a translator?

If you want to be the Prime Minister of Canada you need to be able to communicate effectively and negotiate effectively in both languages.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

While by Law, the Prime Minister of Canada only has to speak one language, but the by law thing is not relevant. An English Candidate with poor language would get skewered in the press and by the Voters for not understanding or respecting all of Canada and its cultures and Language.

How long do you think Harper would last if he went to the French Language debate with a translator?

If you want to be the Prime Minister of Canada you need to be able to communicate effectively and negotiate effectively in both languages.

I agree that being bilingual is an unofficial requirement for PM, but Dion's already gone through the English language debate, and while he certainly wasn't outstanding, he did display a competent grasp of the language. Besides, I'd be more concerned if it was a stubble that suggested a lack of understanding of an issue (ie, Palin's Bush Doctrine flub). I still don't see this moving the voting numbers at all outside of Western Canada.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I agree that being bilingual is an unofficial requirement for PM, but Dion's already gone through the English language debate, and while he certainly wasn't outstanding, he did display a competent grasp of the language. Besides, I'd be more concerned if it was a stubble that suggested a lack of understanding of an issue (ie, Palin's Bush Doctrine flub). I still don't see this moving the voting numbers at all outside of Western Canada.

That's a shame. Goes to show what the rest of the country is made of. I am not certain if Dion actually participated in the English debate or if he was simply reciting canned responses. His degree of interaction was very small and he didn't respond to any of Jack Layton's attacks.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

As for the comments about "he has to speak perfect English to attend G7 meetings", do you not think they have professional translators?

I don't agree that he has to speak perfect English. We already had Chretien who did perfectly fine with his broken English (Trucks vs Drugs aside).

My main concern with Dion is his inability to understand such a basic question. It wasn't that tough. What happens if someone like Bush or Putin asks him a question and he totally flubs it?

Not someone who I see as fit to be PM... policies aside.

[CaptainCrunch]

Wonder if the Royal Canadian Air Farce is going to lampoon this like SNL lampooned Palin's interviews.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

#1 - No, his hearing difficulties didn't relate to being in crowds. It had to be with picking up certain sounds which has hampered his english learning. So unless he and his tutor are learning in a crowded bar, I don't think so. And the inability to pick up certain sounds is not helped with a hearing aid. Many people learning english have trouble distinguishing between "b" and "v" such as in "curb" vs "curve".

Apparently you are incorrect.

"I have a difficulty to isolate sounds," he told reporters who were eager to pepper the Liberal leader with questions during a rowdy campaign stop in Saint-Lambert, Que.

Dion said he has trouble picking up individual sounds when faced with many people talking at once, such as during cocktail parties or often-raucous scrums with reporters.

Dion, who has faced criticism for failing to communicate his message clearly to English-speaking Canadians, added his mother had the same problem. But he was unable to recall the medical term of the condition.

"I've been tested, and it's the case that I hear everything when the sound is isolated, but when it's confused with other sounds, then it's completely confused," he said. "It may affect my ability then to catch the music of the beautiful language of English."

Right from the horses mouth.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canadavotes/s...n-hearing.html

[MarchHare]

The left-wing mainstream media strikes again! Look who the biased, Toronto-centric Globe & Mail endorsed for Prime Minister:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...Story/politics

[Slava]

I don't doubt for a second that you should be able to speak both official languages to lead the country. My issue with this is two-fold:

A) Harper is looking at a beating in Quebec. Everyone who piles onto Dion for not speaking english well has to acknowledge that being the Prime Minister and not winning seats in Quebec is a huge short-coming.

B) Dealing with the media is really what this issue is about. Dion didn't do well understanding the question and was told it was going to be cut and not aired. My business partner was interviewed for a program a few weeks ago and the exact same thing happened to him. Believe me, my business partner is fluent in english and speaks very well. If those clips were in the final product after we were explicitly told that they would not be we would be furious, and I think rightly so.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't doubt for a second that you should be able to speak both official languages to lead the country. My issue with this is two-fold:

A) Harper is looking at a beating in Quebec. Everyone who piles onto Dion for not speaking english well has to acknowledge that being the Prime Minister and not winning seats in Quebec is a huge short-coming.

Agreed, but I don't really even think Dion's capture of the french language is going to help him out as the Bloc seems to have regained their strangle hold there. Quebec as a province to me is almost a waste of time in terms of spilling a lot of political capital there, to me creating a message just for Quebec puts you badly out of sync with the rest of Canada and vice versa. Quebec is the one province that really is going to block any party from ever taking a majority as long as the Block holds the power that it does.

Originally Posted by Slava

B) Dealing with the media is really what this issue is about. Dion didn't do well understanding the question and was told it was going to be cut and not aired. My business partner was interviewed for a program a few weeks ago and the exact same thing happened to him. Believe me, my business partner is fluent in english and speaks very well. If those clips were in the final product after we were explicitly told that they would not be we would be furious, and I think rightly so.

I guess you and me are going to disagree, to me the media in terms of this event really has no right to agree not to air footage unless they're going to give the same courtesy to every party, (ie Harper should have asked for the stock purchase gap to be removed from the video). Convesley I don't believe that the gaffer should be asking for footage not to air, the media doesn't report to anyone except the general public and they shouldn't be deciding what is relevant news and what isn't, thats up to the viewing public to decide.

The media also works by a completely different set of ethics so the Liberals should realize that they should be less furious about believing that the media wouldn't go forward and more furious that they didn't prepare Dion better for a interview like they did for the English debate.

To me its a non starter, I'm not judging these Candidates based on their public perfomances, I'm judging who's going to not screw this country into the ground.

[Slava]

^ The difference is that Harper didn't ask for that to be removed, only to have it air anyway.

Dealing with the media is not as easy as it might seem. Most of us even post things here that we would take back, never mind a free-flowing conversation!

[transplant99]

B) Dealing with the media is really what this issue is about.

No it really isnt..
its about a possible leader of Canada being completely unable to grasp a very simple question even after having his own people explain it to him....3 times.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The left-wing mainstream media strikes again! Look who the biased, Toronto-centric Globe & Mail endorsed for Prime Minister:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...Story/politics

The Globe may have endorsed Harper but judging by the comments the readers aren't very happy with it...

doctor fantastic from Canada writes: hahahahaahahahaha, you're joking right?

Big3 TO from Canada writes: Very disappointing. May have to look elsewhere for my news.

Abe MacIntosh from Canada writes: I am going to cancel my subscription and stop going to their website.

Antonio Pilla from Canada writes: Bye-bye, G&M!

B I from Toronto, Canada writes: Disappointing. Will take out a Toronto Star subscription as the Globe and Mail has endorsed a leader who hates my city.

Haha, if I stopped reading the news because they disagreed with my political position once and a while I'd have no where to go but CP for information...

[Stranger]

Originally Posted by kevman

The Globe may have endorsed Harper but judging by the comments the readers aren't very happy with it...











Haha, if I stopped reading the news because they disagreed with my political position once and a while I'd have no where to go but CP for information...

In Alberta we have to force fed everything Toronto. It just makes me smile a little when I see Toronto have to put up with a Prime Minister from the west.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

did you see that BS on CTV

They were interviewing Dion in Halifax I think and they asked him a question about what would he do if he was prime minister. However, they did not give him a clear concise time for which he would have started. They said separately from when Harper was first elected, from today and from a week from now. Dion asked for restarts because they were changing the question every time he was trying to give an answer.

Now they are saying that he can't comprehend English. I only speak English fluently (Well, most of the time) and I had a hard time understanding what they were specifically asking.

Additionally, they agreed with the Liberals to not show it , but it's on Mike Duffy live now. Fataing BS. I don't particularly like Dion despite me being a Liberal supporter. I would be just as angry if Harper, or Layton, or Duceppe, or May would've been attacked like this.

Um, wow. That is a complete fabrication of what actually happened. Dion was asked a simple question that he didn't have a "talking point" at the ready, and had no idea how to respond. The question was repeated and again he had no response (at least, no intelligible one). Then, someone off camera tries to explain it to him, he claims to understand, then yet again offers a non-answer to the question. They did not, at any time, change the question. Dion tried to change it, but the interviewer did not.

This is not an issue about Dion's hearing problem... he heard the question just fine. I don't think it is a problem with his understanding the question either, despite what it appears. The problem is that Dion had no answer to the question - that is, he has no plan for the economy and has no real idea what he would have done differently had he been the PM. Even on the fourth attempt, he didn't really answer the question and instead basically said he'd take 30 days to come up with a plan.

Reports are showing that Canada has the strongest banking in the world, we set records for job growth in September, the sky is not falling despite the best hopes of the Liberals, the NDP and the Greenies.

Last year, Harper said there was going to be trouble in the world markets coming, and the opposition parties panned him for being "too cautious". Now they are whining that he isn't reacting out of the same panic they are trying to incite. The reason Canada doesn't need to make rash decisions is because Harper say this coming... LAST YEAR.

There are only two possible outcomes on Tuesday. Either Harper will be the PM, or Dion will. Do you want a cautious approach by someone who saw this coming and put us in the best possible position, or do you want some $80B in spending promises with a Carbon Tax to pay for them by someone who gets flustered by the simplest of questions?

Choose wisely.

[CaptainCrunch]

If the Liberals win a minority, we'll be looking at another election within a calender year.

If the Conservatvies win a minority we'll be looking at an election within the next three years.