Vatican endorses Evolution...disses Creationism

[flip]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,424942,00.html

Auletta appeared to be referring to stories about fundamentalist churches that maintain a literal interpretation of the Bible, including the belief that the world was created in six days.

Monsignor Gianfranco Ravasi told reporters that: "One thing is sure. Evolution is not incompatible with faith."

"Creationism from a strictly theological view makes sense, but when it is used in scientific fields it becomes useless," Ravasi said.

As mentioned in the article this isn't the first time the Vatican has endorsed Evolution but nevertheless this is a major step.


As a baptised Catholic, but not practising, it is really nice to see that the Catholic religion seems to be progressing, when for many years US Protestants were scared of Catholocism and its backwardsness. If only the 70 million scary ass evengelical fanatics could start to move in this direction we might get somewhere. That and if Islam would accept evolution formally too, but I think they've got to work on quite a bit of local (read: Middle East) turmoil before they do so.

Either way it is always very refreshing to read these types of stories as it is usually the religious fanatics that make headlines by banning evolution etc.

[Hack&Lube]

The Church of England recently officially apologized to Darwin.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by flip

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,424942,00.html




As mentioned in the article this isn't the first time the Vatican has endorsed Evolution but nevertheless this is a major step.


As a baptised Catholic, but not practising, it is really nice to see that the Catholic religion seems to be progressing, when for many years US Protestants were scared of Catholocism and its backwardsness. If only the 70 million scary ass evengelical fanatics could start to move in this direction we might get somewhere. That and if Islam would accept evolution formally too, but I think they've got to work on quite a bit of local (read: Middle East) turmoil before they do so.

Either way it is always very refreshing to read these types of stories as it is usually the religious fanatics that make headlines by banning evolution etc.

As a cultural Catholic (ie. not religous), I can honestly say that I don't know any Catholics that believe in Creationism. Every creationist I have ever met was either part of a Protestant or Calvinist sect, or a non-Christian.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

As a cultural Catholic (ie. not religous), I can honestly say that I don't know any Catholics that believe in Creationism. Every creationist I have ever met was either part of a Protestant or Calvinist sect, or a non-Christian.

My mother's side is Catholic; My father's Protestant (Lutheran to be specific).

The Catholic side is far more 'creationist' in my experience.

[REDVAN]

Originally Posted by Delgar

My mother's side is Catholic; My father's Protestant (Lutheran to be specific).

The Catholic side is far more 'creationist' in my experience.

In my experience, Lutheran and Catholic are miles apart and yet so close.

But it's nice to see some religious folks have an open mind about science. The Bible might be true-ish, but that doesn't mean nothing else can be true.

[RougeUnderoos]

And the evangelical/fundamentalist/creationist types will probably look at this from the Catholic Church as confirmation of their own beliefs.

[You Need a Thneed]

Some people may try to say that Christianity and science are at odds, but they are not. They are just trying to answer different questions. Science tries to answer "how...?" and Christianity (or other religions) try to answer the question "Why...?" As a Christian, I wish more of us would realize this. Science doesn't really care about "Why?", and religion shouldn't really care about "How?", unfortunately, WAY to many Christians are concerned with "How?". It ticks me off sometimes.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Some people may try to say that Christianity and science are at odds, but they are not. They are just trying to answer different questions. Science tries to answer "how...?" and Christianity (or other religions) try to answer the question "Why...?" As a Christian, I wish more of us would realize this. Science doesn't really care about "Why?", and religion shouldn't really care about "How?", unfortunately, WAY to many Christians are concerned with "How?". It ticks me off sometimes.

Science and Religion:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/science/

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Delgar

My mother's side is Catholic; My father's Protestant (Lutheran to be specific).

The Catholic side is far more 'creationist' in my experience.

Lutherans are one of the more moderate sects. If you're comparing Lutherans and Catholics, then the Catholics will look pretty hardcore relatively speaking.

The Protestant sects that tend to be creationists are sects like Baptists, Pentecosts, and other evangicals - as well as Calvinist sects like Mennonites. Not to say that there aren't some Catholics in there as well, but most Catholics don't take literal meaning from the Bible... Catholics are like Jews in that they try to interpret meaning from symbolism. Of course, that is just a huge generalization.

[stuck_in_chuk]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Some people may try to say that Christianity and science are at odds, but they are not. They are just trying to answer different questions. Science tries to answer "how...?" and Christianity (or other religions) try to answer the question "Why...?" As a Christian, I wish more of us would realize this. Science doesn't really care about "Why?", and religion shouldn't really care about "How?", unfortunately, WAY to many Christians are concerned with "How?". It ticks me off sometimes.

I disagree - I think gods and religion were invented by primitive people to explain what was not understood at the time. For instance, volcanic eruptions were caused by vengeful volcano gods, and could be prevented by the sacrifice of virgins. We now know this is ridiculous, because of scientific discovery on how volcanoes work.

Every religion tries to explain "why", but the religious texts are also full of the "how". Unfortunately, religion tends to answer the "how" questions incorrectly. The earth is more than 6000-odd years old, the earth does resolve around the sun, and pi does not equal 3, all in contradiction to the Bible. The Koran and other religious texts are similarly filled with errors. Believers in biblical inerrancy gloss over these contradictions, and assume that science is incorrect. I don't know about you, but I would not want to drive over a bridge designed by a Christian engineer who decides that pi=3 based on 1 Kings 7:23.

[Ch40s]

Originally Posted by stuck_in_chuk

I disagree - I think gods and religion were invented by primitive people to explain what was not understood at the time. For instance, volcanic eruptions were caused by vengeful volcano gods, and could be prevented by the sacrifice of virgins. We now know this is ridiculous, because of scientific discovery on how volcanoes work.

Every religion tries to explain "why", but the religious texts are also full of the "how". Unfortunately, religion tends to answer the "how" questions incorrectly. The earth is more than 6000-odd years old, the earth does resolve around the sun, and pi does not equal 3, all in contradiction to the Bible. The Koran and other religious texts are similarly filled with errors. Believers in biblical inerrancy gloss over these contradictions, and assume that science is incorrect. I don't know about you, but I would not want to drive over a bridge designed by a Christian engineer who decides that pi=3 based on 1 Kings 7:23.

The thing about religion is it, like science, is progressive. We do not have any "volcano Gods" in modern religion.

Speaking for Catholicism, religion does not try and explain the "how". In a literal sense it does, but 90% of the bible is metaphorical, but people don't seem to understand that. I remember my religion teacher becoming very flustered when students kept interpreting the Adam and Eve story as literal, and most of them also perceived practicing Catholics as taking it literally, too.

[Sparks]

Originally Posted by Ch40s

In a literal sense it does, but 90% of the bible is metaphorical, but people don't seem to understand that.

OK, but then the problem becomes - who decides what is metaphorical, and what isn't?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Ch40s

The thing about religion is it, like science, is progressive. We do not have any "volcano Gods" in modern religion.

You may not but plenty of people do. Like,say, a Hurricane God. They don't call it a Hurricane God of course, but he apparently has plenty to do with Hurricanes, depending on who you ask.

"God struck New Orleans because it is wicked".

"By the Grace of God my house wasn't destroyed by the Hurricane".

"God decided it was her time, and my mother drowned in the attic".

"God willing, we'll rebuild this city".

"The insurance company said it was an Act of God, and replaced my Cressida almost immediately".

[Ch40s]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

You may not but plenty of people do. Like,say, a Hurricane God. They don't call it a Hurricane God of course, but he apparently has plenty to do with Hurricanes, depending on who you ask.

"God struck New Orleans because it is wicked".

"By the Grace of God my house wasn't destroyed by the Hurricane".

"God decided it was her time, and my mother drowned in the attic".

"God willing, we'll rebuild this city".

"The insurance company said it was an Act of God, and replaced my Cressida almost immediately".

Sure, but people don't say "God created this hurricane by swirling his finger in the ocean". We know how hurricanes are formed.

I'm not a deeply religious person by any means, I just don't think religion deserves half of the flack it receives. Even generally religious people I know do not necessarily practice Catholicism frequently (ie read the bible every month). It's more of a way of going about your life and how you think about things.

Perhaps there are some "higher ups" who take their religion more seriously who deserve some criticism when it comes to their views and how they attempt to push it on others, but to say Catholics are stupid because they think from Adam and Eve stemmed the world's 6 billion people is just plain ignorant. Especially when most "practical Catholics" just use the morals of the religion to help strengthen their everyday lives.

Edit: And unless the "fundamentalist churches that maintain a literal interpretation of the Bible, including the belief that the world was created in six days" are somehow interferring with something such as a vital scientific study, I don't see the need to criticize their beliefs. I know I, for one, have never met someone like this, so why do we need to insult them? Even if Catholics all believed in creationism, why should we need to pick their religion apart when 95% of them never do anything to antagonize atheists, etc?

[Iowa_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by fotze

Pretty progressive to use the term 'disses', what next, Can't touch this?

Naw, we're not there yet. The next step is telling creationists to "talk to the hand."

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Ch40s

Sure, but people don't say "God created this hurricane by swirling his finger in the ocean". We know how hurricanes are formed.

To a person that believes god created the hurricane, what's the difference? Sure they know it don't form by god stirring his finger in the ocean, but they still think it was created by god.

Originally Posted by Ch40s

I'm not a deeply religious person by any means, I just don't think religion deserves half of the flack it receives. Even generally religious people I know do not necessarily practice Catholicism frequently (ie read the bible every month). It's more of a way of going about your life and how you think about things.

Perhaps there are some "higher ups" who take their religion more seriously who deserve some criticism when it comes to their views and how they attempt to push it on others, but to say Catholics are stupid because they think from Adam and Eve stemmed the world's 6 billion people is just plain ignorant. Especially when most "practical Catholics" just use the morals of the religion to help strengthen their everyday lives.

Nobody has said anything about anybody being stupid, and this discussion is about how the Catholic church denying the literal Adam and Eve stuff anyway.

You seem to be saying "sure, the people who take it seriously might deserve criticism, but the rest of us who just pay lip-service don't". That seems a little flimsy to me.

Originally Posted by Ch40s

Edit: And unless the "fundamentalist churches that maintain a literal interpretation of the Bible, including the belief that the world was created in six days" are somehow interferring with something such as a vital scientific study, I don't see the need to criticize their beliefs. I know I, for one, have never met someone like this, so why do we need to insult them? Even if Catholics all believed in creationism, why should we need to pick their religion apart when 95% of them never do anything to antagonize atheists, etc?

We're allowed to criticize whoever we want.

They are interfering with scientific study, public policy and public education. And it's tax-free!

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by flip

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,424942,00.html




As mentioned in the article this isn't the first time the Vatican has endorsed Evolution but nevertheless this is a major step.


As a baptised Catholic, but not practising, it is really nice to see that the Catholic religion seems to be progressing, when for many years US Protestants were scared of Catholocism and its backwardsness. If only the 70 million scary ass evengelical fanatics could start to move in this direction we might get somewhere. That and if Islam would accept evolution formally too, but I think they've got to work on quite a bit of local (read: Middle East) turmoil before they do so.

Either way it is always very refreshing to read these types of stories as it is usually the religious fanatics that make headlines by banning evolution etc.

Do you REALLY believe that 20% of Americans fit this category as YOU define it?

I don't.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Sparks

OK, but then the problem becomes - who decides what is metaphorical, and what isn't?

Ohhh, the Church has thousands of years of theological work on this topic. Hermeneutics is very, very dry. Just accept that the church has put a lot of effort into this particular area...

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Ch40s

The thing about religion is it, like science, is progressive. We do not have any "volcano Gods" in modern religion.

Speaking for Catholicism, religion does not try and explain the "how". In a literal sense it does, but 90% of the bible is metaphorical, but people don't seem to understand that. I remember my religion teacher becoming very flustered when students kept interpreting the Adam and Eve story as literal, and most of them also perceived practicing Catholics as taking it literally, too.

the thing that i never understood is that if someone believes Adam and Eve to be a true story, how do they handle the fact that we would all be inbreds then?

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

the thing that i never understood is that if someone believes Adam and Eve to be a true story, how do they handle the fact that we would all be inbreds then?

Where in the bible does it say that Adam and Eve were the only two created?