I HATE Racism

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

Making a derogatory comment based on the colour of my skin and hair isn't racist? If that's not racist, then what is? My friend said "excuse me" in plain English, and yet he felt the need to make that statement. And he looked at me as well in saying so and placed that comment on me by association. I agree that the term "racist" isn't always used in the correct context. Here it CLEARLY is, and I refuse to tolerate it. I wish I had yelled at him for even longer. What other information does he base his comment on?

It really hurts to have a fellow countryman tell you that you don't belong here, especially based on a mere glance, and nothing more.

In any case, I'm was angry last night and just needed to vent. I won't be losing any more sleep because of this ignoramus.

I am not downplaying how rude this was and uncalled for and I would be just as pissed as you. Maybe he is a racist maybe he isn't but IMO I wouldn't classify the comment as a racist one.

If I see the guy I will kick him in the nuts for you because it was very rude.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I am not downplaying how rude this was and uncalled for and I would be just as pissed as you. Maybe he is a racist maybe he isn't but IMO I wouldn't classify the comment as a racist one.

If I see the guy I will kick him in the nuts for you because it was very rude.

If he had made a comment about me being some punk kid, I would agree that it was simply a comment based on prejudice.

If he had made a comment about me being a drunkard because I'm an engineer, then that is also a comment based on prejudice.

If he had made a comment about my Indian friend being a weed-head because he was born in Golden, that would be prejudice.

Making a comment based on my skin, that's racism - a form of prejudice.

P.S. Feel free to kick away. I wouldn't stop ya

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by fatso

In any event, your hypothetical is by-and-large pointless. UK and Canadian aren't races... they're ethnicities or nationalities. Sure, the situation you described would be prejudiced, but I don't think it could be racist. But so what, we're not talking about that here. The proper analogy would be if a white person born and raised in Japan bumped into an old Japanese businessman on the train... and the old man said "watch it, you're in Japan now". And yes, that would be racist.

Thats my point. It is the exact same treatment yet you proclaim one is racist and one isn't.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

I am not downplaying how rude this was and uncalled for and I would be just as pissed as you. Maybe he is a racist maybe he isn't but IMO I wouldn't classify the comment as a racist one.

Then you're the one who is way off base.

The old guy made the comment based upon the personal characteristics of the young guy.

Pretty clear cut. Go ahead and try and defend all you want - I'm not afraid to take unpopular positions or decisions myself - but there comes a point in any dispute where you start to fail the commen sense or "Give your head a shake" test.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Thats my point. It is the exact same treatment yet you proclaim one is racist and one isn't.

ya, because one is race-based and the other isn't. I think your little hypothetical is just as disgusting... but the situation is different and therefore requires different definitions.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

Then you're the one who is way off base.

The old guy made the comment based upon the personal characteristics of the young guy.

Pretty clear cut. Go ahead and try and defend all you want - I'm not afraid to take unpopular positions or decisions myself - but there comes a point in any dispute where you start to fail the commen sense or "Give your head a shake" test.

WHAT? Go back and read what I posted. IT IS MY OPINION and I was not the only one to take that stance. Take your righteous comments elsewere.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by fatso

ya, because one is race-based and the other isn't. I think your little hypothetical is just as disgusting... but the situation is different and therefore requires different definitions.

Look, it can be argued just as much that every culture is its own race, we clearly see heriditary traits in many cultures. It could also be argued that there is only one race, the human race. So, my point being that labeling someone racist in my opinion needs to meet more of a criteria than just a simple rude comment made on a prejudice assumption.

[fatso]

That was precisely my point. Is there proof here that the guy is a flat-out racist? Maybe, maybe not... but was the comment itself racist? Absolutely. It was an insult based on race - or its visual demonstration - and seemingly little else. That's why your hypothetical of the UK-guy doesn't work... because he looks white, and because he speaks the old guy knows he's not "from here", so the old-guy's comments are rooted in something other than racial difference.

And to be clear, I don't think the OP called the guy racist... he said it was a racist comment. To also be clear, I do like your nut-kicking solution.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by fatso

That was precisely my point. Is there proof here that the guy is a flat-out racist? Maybe, maybe not... but was the comment itself racist? Absolutely.

Well, I guess we will agree to disagree and that is the beauty of Canada.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

Making a derogatory comment based on the colour of my skin and hair isn't racist? If that's not racist, then what is?

Since when did hair color come into play? Are you saying if you were dark skinned but blond dude would have been okay with you?

Personally my initial reaction was that it was stupid and ignorant and not so much racist, but since I am white my opinion on racism means squat in the real world so I will take everyone's word that it was a racist comment and leave it at that.

[Swarly]

Originally Posted by fatso

UK and Canadian aren't races... they're ethnicities or nationalities. Sure, the situation you described would be prejudiced, but I don't think it could be racist.

so if someone hated Chinese people but not any other Asians then that would not be racism because they hate one ethnicity or nationality not the whole Asian race?

or is it just because they are both white, in which case it wouldn't racism if a Chinese man hated Japanese people?

I think everyone just has a slightly different definition of racism because I'm pretty sure both situations I described are racism but they are the same as the UK and Canadian situation.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by moon

Since when did hair color come into play? Are you saying if you were dark skinned but blond dude would have been okay with you?

Personally my initial reaction was that it was stupid and ignorant and not so much racist, but since I am white my opinion on racism means squat in the real world so I will take everyone's word that it was a racist comment and leave it at that.

This is the unfortunate thing, apparently, if you are white male you aren't aloud to make a comment about it.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Question:

If a white guy says to another white guy who has immigrated from the United Kingdom ""Watch where you're going, you're in CANADA now."

does that mean the first white guy is racist?

That's not what happened here, is it. Fatso's explanation is better than anything I could have come up with.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

WHAT? Go back and read what I posted. IT IS MY OPINION and I was not the only one to take that stance. Take your righteous comments elsewere.

Nothing righteous about my comments.

I just pointed out that the statement was racist in its nature. You were trying to paint it as something less. In this circumstance, you're opinion fails to exhibit common sense.

I wouldn't expect you to like it at all, but my pointing it out isn't righteous at all.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by Swarly

so if someone hated Chinese people but not any other Asians then that would not be racism because they hate one ethnicity or nationality not the whole Asian race?

or is it just because they are both white, in which case it wouldn't racism if a Chinese man hated Japanese people?

I think everyone just has a slightly different definition of racism because I'm pretty sure both situations I described are racism but they are the same as the UK and Canadian situation.

that's a tough one. I was only speculating on the hypothetical provided. Your examples are a bit more nuanced and provide more info... I was going on race generally as skin colour, which was what was presented. In the OP it seemed like skin colour was the defining issue, and something Jolinar was taking issue with I think.

Are the phenotypic differences between chinese and japanese that different? I'm genuinely not trying to be ignorant there... I just don't know whether those differences fall under the category of racial difference. Seems like in your first example, the issue isn't 'race' or skin colour per se (though that could be part of it) but culture or history. That seems different to me, but I don't know that it precludes racism. In any event it might just be semantics... in my mind race is not the same as ethnicity. Ethnicity is quite a bit more complex, and involves culture, history, nationality, etc. Race is more of a physical thing - the kind of thing that usually provides a kind of visual shorthand for something more complex like ethnicity: skin colour primarily. For example, 'black', 'white', etc... I really don't know, I'm just thinking out loud.

I do think there can be intra-race racism though... You see it all the time on Maury and the like when people hate on their own race. It's weird, to be sure, but race as a marker, despite its effects, is a pretty arbitrary construction.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

This is the unfortunate thing, apparently, if you are white male you aren't aloud to make a comment about it.

is that really what you think of is going on here? It seems to me you've been pretty vocal in this debate. People are disagreeing with you (and agreeing with you) but no one is trying to shut you up.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by moon

Since when did hair color come into play? Are you saying if you were dark skinned but blond dude would have been okay with you?

You misinterpreted my comment. I'm talking about generating an opinion based on physical features.

And yeah Fatso's analogy totally does justice to my experience.

Reverse the situation and imagine yourself being born and raised in Japan. Japanese is your primary language. You went to school in Japan. You work in Japan. You do what you can contribute to Japan. Yeah you have some slightly different cultural tendancies because your family is from Canada. Maybe you speak decent English and eat with forks and knives on a regular basis. But other than that you ARE Japanese. It's YOUR country, which you love.

Then some schmoe on the street tells you that you don't belong here because you're white.

I am Canadian. I'm an Alberta boy and have probably seen more of Alberta than most, since my job requires it. I'm a Flames Fan. What the hell gives this guy a right to think I don't belong here in my own country??? Just because my parents are Chinese???? Ugh I'm getting pissed off just thinking about it again.

The sensation of not belonging in your own country in which you were born and raised, is really frustrating.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

This is the unfortunate thing, apparently, if you are white male you aren't aloud to make a comment about it.

Not sure who this is directed at, but if it's about the man that said the racist comment then he has every right to spew his ignorant comments. I have every right to think he's stupid and let him know that. The difference is my opinion about came directly from hearing what he has to say not the way he looks.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by fotze

Who gives a fata? By some people's definition of racist it was racist by others it wasn't, the label does not matter, it is the intention. Trying to downplay someone else's reaction according to something obtuse like not specifically fitting your definition of racism says something though.

good point.

[RougeUnderoos]

I'm a honky. If the same thing happened to me (some coot saying "you are in Canada now") I might start a thread titled "what the hell did the old guy in Banff mean by that?"

It is pretty clear that the comment was made based on the color of the guy's skin. How can that be anything but racism?