iPhone on Rogers - General iPhone on Rogers / Fido discussions

[calculoso]

sigh...

How about this that Photon posted earlier in the thread?

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by calculoso

sigh...

How about this that Photon posted earlier in the thread?

I wasn't trying to be difficult I just didn't see a lot of info in that clip.

I think its fair to say we can agree to disagree on this topic as much of what yourself and I have to say is opinion based.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that you do have a choice. The iPhone is not your only option for a data device. I guess I just don't see the appeal of the device it seems like a very niche product that in 6 months time everyone will be complaing about.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I guess the point I was trying to make was that you do have a choice. The iPhone is not your only option for a data device. I guess I just don't see the appeal of the device it seems like a very niche product that in 6 months time everyone will be complaing about.

You're right. It's not the only option for a data device. The Rogers data rates are crappy for all of them!

I also think that the iPhone is much less of a niche product than the Blackberry. Blackberry is targeted for business people.. the iPhone for everyone else (or at least would have been with affordable plans). As an example, I've resisted getting an iPod so far, because I haven't wanted to carry around 15 different devices to get what I want.. but now I had the opportunity to combine them into one product. So much for that.

I guess Rogers is listening to the media venom and is changing, with possibly something new on Monday... I guess we'll see if it matches what some of us thought they should do right from the start. They had a huge opportunity to grow their business and change opinions about the company... and now I doubt it'll matter what they do with the taste left in everyone's mouth.

[Thor]

Hoot you are so out to lunch on this man its not even funny, sorry but you really have to be kidding me defending this.

I came from Iceland with 300,000 people, we had plenty of options for no contracts, buy a phone, OWN your own phone number and switch with any carrier based on service and price.

So if Iceland could do it, I'm sure Canada with 30 million plus could handle it.

[HOOT]

Out to Lunch? I think you need to look at the land they need to cover before you start yapping away. Iceland is also the size of the State of Kentuky. I would assume covering the parts of the Canada which are populated or needed it would be a bit more than that.

For the area they need to cover I would not be suprised if they only need 50-75 towers which are probably privately owned and rented out to all the carriers so they would have no big expenses, no maintance and just be paying rent like a store lease deal.

Have you ever been in the industry? Have you ever seen the costs for things? Or are you just going by a trip to Europe and a few pre-paid phones you bought?

Out to lunch....

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by HOOT

Out to Lunch? I think you need to look at the land they need to cover before you start yapping away. Iceland is also the size of the State of Kentuky. I would assume covering the parts of the Canada which are populated or needed it would be a bit more than that.

Population density of Canada: 8.3 per square mile, including over a million square miles in the Yukon, NWT, and Nunavut where you can bet your bottom dollar Rogers isn't even *thinking* of providing service. In the areas where Rogers does have service, the density is a great deal higher than that.

Population density of Iceland: 7.5 per square mile.

Furthermore, the population of Canada, and therefore the potential number of cellular customers, is 100 times that of Iceland. The Canadian market is big enough to allow economies of scale that Iceland just can't match.

So let's try again. If Iceland can have profitable cell providers offering cheap and flexible plans, including data, without the nuisances, never-never plans, and vendor lock-ins that plague our market, why can't we? We've ruled out population density; we've ruled out the total size of the market. What's left?

The fact is, Rogers (the worst offender), Bell, and Telus all benefit from a vastly overregulated market. No Canadian startup can afford to compete against them (Fido and Clearnet tried, failed, and were taken over), and no foreign company is even permitted to try.

This last is the key point. If Verizon or AT&T were permitted to set up shop in Canada, our own telcos would have to smarten up and give value for money if they wanted to survive. Likely one or more of them would not.

It would be very much like when Wal-Mart came to Canada. Zellers and Canadian Tire adapted beautifully, and actually increased their sales and market penetration even in the face of sharply lower prices for mass-market consumer goods. A lot of other retailers couldn't stand the heat: not just Canadian retailers like Eaton's, but American branch plants like Kmart. And you know what? Except for a handful of professional xenophobes like Maude Barlow, nobody missed them when they were gone.

If Canadian companies can't or won't provide decent service at reasonable prices, let's open up the market to those who will.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by calculoso

I guess Rogers is listening to the media venom and is changing, with possibly something new on Monday... I guess we'll see if it matches what some of us thought they should do right from the start. They had a huge opportunity to grow their business and change opinions about the company... and now I doubt it'll matter what they do with the taste left in everyone's mouth.

I may be out to lunch here, but what's the rumor that's possibly going to be announced on Monday? Second, any links for further reading? If anything, if Rogers happens to lower rates, I think this was probably just a bargaining tactic on their part. They made outrageous data plans for the phone, and by lowering it to, say, $50/month, they'll look like the most ethical company listening to their customers (they hope). The iPhone data plan should be $30/month for unlimited, but because they basically started out with $100/month for 4GB's or whatever they offered, and if they drop the price by half to say, $50, people will remember the price cut and forget that they're still being ripped off by $20. Rogers is screwy, and I hope people see beyond their bargaining tactics.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by fleury

I may be out to lunch here, but what's the rumor that's possibly going to be announced on Monday? Second, any links for further reading?

Hope you have a lot of time

Post 1601 on page 107 refers to a post on page 97/98 of the thread below:
http://howardforums.com/showthread.p...page=107&pp=15

"I spoke to 2 different Customer Service Ladys about iphone 3G...like on page 97/98 or something

and they said more info and plans would be released monday..at the staff meeting"

No idea what that means... but there's still hope that something positive will come out of it.

Originally Posted by fleury

by lowering it to, say, $50/month, they'll look like the most ethical company listening to their customers (they hope).

They've already put a bad taste in way too many people's mouths for a sham offer like that to make much of a difference.

Originally Posted by fleury

The iPhone data plan should be $30/month for unlimited, but because they basically started out with $100/month for 4GB's or whatever they offered, and if they drop the price by half to say, $50, people will remember the price cut and forget that they're still being ripped off by $20. Rogers is screwy, and I hope people see beyond their bargaining tactics.

I agree.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Hope you have a lot of time

Post 1601 on page 107 refers to a post on page 97/98 of the thread below:
http://howardforums.com/showthread.p...page=107&pp=15

"I spoke to 2 different Customer Service Ladys about iphone 3G...like on page 97/98 or something

and they said more info and plans would be released monday..at the staff meeting"

No idea what that means... but there's still hope that something positive will come out of it.

Cool. Thanks. Should make for some good reading on a Saturday afternoon.

[calculoso]

Latest update, from an apparent Rogers dealer/employee/etc...

Don't need a data plan to get the iPhone, but still need a 3-yr term. No details on data plans, but I'd guess that any data plan that Rogers has (eg: $30 for 300MB) can be applied.

http://howardforums.com/showthread.p...5#post11299928

Oh.. and in his very next post, he shows that he just doesn't understand:
"So now that it is official that you can get an iPhone 3G with ANY voice plan and with OR without ANY data plan will everyone PLEASE quit your *****ing about the iPhone pricing!!!
...
iPhone pricing is NOT expensive. Get over it."

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Population density of Canada: 8.3 per square mile, including over a million square miles in the Yukon, NWT, and Nunavut where you can bet your bottom dollar Rogers isn't even *thinking* of providing service. In the areas where Rogers does have service, the density is a great deal higher than that.

Population density of Iceland: 7.5 per square mile.

Furthermore, the population of Canada, and therefore the potential number of cellular customers, is 100 times that of Iceland. The Canadian market is big enough to allow economies of scale that Iceland just can't match.

So let's try again. If Iceland can have profitable cell providers offering cheap and flexible plans, including data, without the nuisances, never-never plans, and vendor lock-ins that plague our market, why can't we? We've ruled out population density; we've ruled out the total size of the market. What's left?

This is a coverage map of the largest company in Iceland, Siminn:



Now that we know Iceland is a bit smaller than Kentuky we can see from this map just how much they actually have to cover compared to Canada.



Basically their coverage would have to go on the outsides of the KY border.

Futuremore Iceland has the laregest mobile phone users per capita in the world. As of 2005 103.4% of the population of Iceland were using mobile phones, while Canada was sitting below 60% of their population.

So in having to cover a coast line of about 4,970km, which is about equal to covering Highway 1 from Vancouver to Toronto, would be very cheap to maintain compared to the infustructer that a Canadian company would have to maintain regardless of having more actual customers. Not to mention Canada has one of the lowest population densities in the world.

I also took a look at the Siminn website. They have one mobile plan "Unsurpassable" which includes 300 minutes, 180 TXT, 3MB Data for the price of 4,990 ISK (~$65 CND).

Doesn't sound like that great of a deal to me!

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Latest update, from an apparent Rogers dealer/employee/etc...

Don't need a data plan to get the iPhone, but still need a 3-yr term. No details on data plans, but I'd guess that any data plan that Rogers has (eg: $30 for 300MB) can be applied.

http://howardforums.com/showthread.p...5#post11299928

Oh.. and in his very next post, he shows that he just doesn't understand:
"So now that it is official that you can get an iPhone 3G with ANY voice plan and with OR without ANY data plan will everyone PLEASE quit your *****ing about the iPhone pricing!!!
...
iPhone pricing is NOT expensive. Get over it."

That's not bad, but considering for new customers, with SAF and taxes, the cheapest Rogers plan is probably in the neighbourhood of $35/month for voice plans, it's not much of a consolation. Who buys a smartphone without the ability to use the data properties it was built for? Without proper data plans, it's still not appropriate. Rogers marketing at it's best.

[calculoso]

It's a step in the right direction. I can now get an iPhone and use it with my current plan, and only use Wifi (assuming cell data can be turned off) while waiting for a better Rogers data plan.

Of course, I'm still bitter that they didn't announce this right off the start... it would have saved them a world of bitterness, complaints, etc.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by calculoso

It's a step in the right direction. I can now get an iPhone and use it with my current plan, and only use Wifi (assuming cell data can be turned off) while waiting for a better Rogers data plan.

Of course, I'm still bitter that they didn't announce this right off the start... it would have saved them a world of bitterness, complaints, etc.

Keep in mind that only Roger/Fido hotspots will be free with your wifi

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Keep in mind that only Roger/Fido hotspots will be free with your wifi

Which, if I'm not mistaken, means free WiFi only at Starbucks.

(unless there are other public Rogers wifi spots in Calgary that I don't know about)

[HotHotHeat]

So no data plan is needed...Can we still pick it up for the 199 price tag?

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Which, if I'm not mistaken, means free WiFi only at Starbucks.

(unless there are other public Rogers wifi spots in Calgary that I don't know about)

Second Cup. According to this link, Starbucks is Bell

http://www.canadianhotspot.ca/advanc...cmd_search.y=3

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

So no data plan is needed...Can we still pick it up for the 199 price tag?

According to the post linked above, if you have a voice plan with a base rate of more than $30, it is $249 with an automatic $50 credit (to get to $199). With a base rate of $30 or lower, you don't get the $50 credit and have to pay $249. Also, if you change your voice plan to a base rate less than $30 during the 3-years, you have to pay back the $50 credit.

Weird....

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Second Cup. According to this link, Starbucks is Bell

http://www.canadianhotspot.ca/advanc...cmd_search.y=3

Oh yeah, right... I got that mixed up.

That's even worse, though.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Which, if I'm not mistaken, means free WiFi only at Starbucks.

(unless there are other public Rogers wifi spots in Calgary that I don't know about)

Probably a stupid question but... the Roger's iPhone won't be locked to only use Roger's wifi spots right? As in, I won't be able to connect it to my personal home network and others that I have access keys to?

Doubt this is the case, but I want to confirm it.