Bank Fees - WTF Are They For?

[Ayrahb]

Originally Posted by ricosuave

Agreed.

PC Financial FTW

+1

Given how poor customer service is these days, I am happy not to deal with tellers or cashiers. Since I started using PC Financial for banking, I am yet to regret not having a teller available.

And fredr, I think PC can give you a certified cheque through CIBC, but you have to phone PC customer service first then wait a couple of days.

[MoneyGuy]

I'm a financial planner and I hate the bank as much as anyone. Um, way more, actually. I don't hate all of my competition, but there are things about the banks that I hate way more than fees. Bank fees as well down my list.

I hate the fact that it's very hard to get a real person on the phone. I hate the biased investment advice they give their clients. I've transferred millions of dollars of bank funds out, and although they can sell third-party products I've never seen one case where they have done so. I hate the fact that they push debt on people who cannot afford it, putting people into severe financial trouble. I hate the fact that they push mortgage insurance, a product that terrible in that it's expensive, inflexible, your premiums don't decline as your debt reduces and, perhaps most of all, that it's underwritten at the time of claim so sometimes doesn't even pay out. Hell, I hate the fact that they have unlicensed flakes staff who sell this crappy insurance when I need a license and lots of product knowledge. I hate the fact that they think they control the world and they lobby politicians for things that benefit the banks but hurt people. I hate the banks' arrogance.

Yup, there are way more important things to complain about regarding banks.

Oh, BTW, many people who squawk about bank fees think nothing about throwing money down the toilet on smokes, booze adn tonnes of other stuff that is way more money than bank fees. This is not a comment on the OP as I don't know you. Just sayin'.

[ericschand]

Originally Posted by Ayrahb

+1

Given how poor customer service is these days, I am happy not to deal with tellers or cashiers. Since I started using PC Financial for banking, I am yet to regret not having a teller available.

And fredr, I think PC can give you a certified cheque through CIBC, but you have to phone PC customer service first then wait a couple of days.

Yup, PC Financial, never looked back. Never wished I banked at a
traditional bank. Always laugh when I hear the term "bank fees."
I can't recall the last time I paid a bank fee for anything, excluding
the bank draft for my car.

I transfer between 3 accounts in PC Financial and there is no
charge for doing so. Transfer money around as much as I want.
Basic cheques are free too. Replacement card was free.

TD Bank, my previous bank, charged over $2.50 per month for two
deposits and two withdrawls per month. That's it, no other
transactions. $2.50 for something basic a bank does.

Yes, you can get a certified cheque or bank draft from PC Financial.
In fact, in the case of down payment on a house or on a car,
I've had it in my hands in next day at CIBC bank location of your choice.
[You have to tell them on the phone what it's for and they get it
quick if you tell them car or house, as you can lose those easily.]

Vip

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

This comic teaches me that banks are of the devil.

http://www.canadianactionparty.ca/comic.html

[macker]

Hate the banks but love the dividends of bank stocks!
Hedge your fee's and buy and hold their stocks! Not all of them of course but nothing wrong with BNS or TD.
Good options have been mentioned here such as PC Financial. I would also add ING, Manulife, and Dundee for bank accounts that actually pay you some interest on your money! Also a bank out of India ICICI bank but I haven't looked into this bank other then seeing that they were paying out over 4% about a year ago which was tops in Canada at the time. Who needs a traditional bank anymore. I can deal with PC Financial and if I need to talk to a banker go in to CIBC which is the parent company. If I need to renew my mortgage I call a broker and shop online and make them compete for the lowest rate!

[fredr123]

Does anyone bank with Canadian Tire?

[flip]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

So my monthly fee just went up $2.00 apparently. Nice of the bank to just arbitrarily up the amount of money it costs me for allowing them to handle and make money off of my paycheques and investments.

Why the Hell do we have to pay bank fees? What do they pay for? Why does it cost 50 cents to do an online transaction to move money from my chequing account to my savings account? There was absolutely no work involved in moving that money. A mindless computer changed the values to two files in some random database.

Don't tell me it's supposed to fund maintainence for those computers or ATMs or some other bullcrap sob story. Banks rake in the dough. Imagine all the money they collect in fees alone every day from people just making simple transactions like withdrawals or transfers.

Why do I have to pay to access my own money? I'm doing the bank a favor by banking there. Not the other way around.

Banks =

This is always such a frustrating argument. Your complaint and reasoning are . How many other businesses arbitrarily up their prices? All of them. And what a sound argument that it takes one computer like 2 seconds to do all the work. Have you ever been to a bank? you think those people are just paid to hang out? yes, they aren't just accounting for your 2 cents but c'mon use some sense here.

BANKING IS NOT FREE!

This isn't like mail delivery which just "happens" or with a small fee to mail it somewhere. Banks are not non-profit organizations out there to "serve the public". They are a business like any other where they provide a service, like say your local car wash does or your lawyer or accountant or mechanic or masseuse or golf instructor or alarm company etc, and in return YOU PAY THEM.

When the car wash goes up does anyone start a thread or suggest rioting in the streets? No. When the cost of a t-shirt or the zoo or the cost of dry cleaning goes up we don't get in a huff. Why? I don't know but banks like any other are doing something for you and as such you pay for it.

What do they do for you? Well, if you don't like them so much go get a loan from Money Mart and pay near loan shark interest. Or just withdraw all your money and keep it under your mattress. No? Didn't think so. Or get your mortgage from someone else, or your student loans or be able to use your fricken debit card or get cash out from anywhere in the world...I could go on.

For the record banks make A LOT of $$, usually. The CIBC just wrote off like $2billion dollars because of the US market and dollar. Most of that profit that you see on the news isn't because of your $20-30 a month banking fees. In fact lots of people don't even pay bank fees because they keep a certain $$ limit, usually quite high, or just take out cash bundles at a time to avoid service charges.

Yours is a very common but mistaken viewpoint. Can banks be expensive? Yes. But they are also commissioned AS A FAVOR TO YOU to look after your money, which is quite possibly the most important inanimate thing you have.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by flip

BANKING IS NOT FREE!

Dunno, the bank has no problem borrowing my money for free and lending it out to someone else.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Dan02

Dunno, the bank has no problem borrowing my money for free and lending it out to someone else.

really? huh. you should try switching banks to one that pays interest.

[PowerPlayoffs06]

Originally Posted by flip

This is always such a frustrating argument. Your complaint and reasoning are . How many other businesses arbitrarily up their prices? All of them. And what a sound argument that it takes one computer like 2 seconds to do all the work. Have you ever been to a bank? you think those people are just paid to hang out? yes, they aren't just accounting for your 2 cents but c'mon use some sense here.

BANKING IS NOT FREE!

This isn't like mail delivery which just "happens" or with a small fee to mail it somewhere. Banks are not non-profit organizations out there to "serve the public". They are a business like any other where they provide a service, like say your local car wash does or your lawyer or accountant or mechanic or masseuse or golf instructor or alarm company etc, and in return YOU PAY THEM.

When the car wash goes up does anyone start a thread or suggest rioting in the streets? No. When the cost of a t-shirt or the zoo or the cost of dry cleaning goes up we don't get in a huff. Why? I don't know but banks like any other are doing something for you and as such you pay for it.

What do they do for you? Well, if you don't like them so much go get a loan from Money Mart and pay near loan shark interest. Or just withdraw all your money and keep it under your mattress. No? Didn't think so. Or get your mortgage from someone else, or your student loans or be able to use your fricken debit card or get cash out from anywhere in the world...I could go on.

For the record banks make A LOT of $$, usually. The CIBC just wrote off like $2billion dollars because of the US market and dollar. Most of that profit that you see on the news isn't because of your $20-30 a month banking fees. In fact lots of people don't even pay bank fees because they keep a certain $$ limit, usually quite high, or just take out cash bundles at a time to avoid service charges.

Yours is a very common but mistaken viewpoint. Can banks be expensive? Yes. But they are also commissioned AS A FAVOR TO YOU to look after your money, which is quite possibly the most important inanimate thing you have.

Wow, if my reasong is crap, what the hell would you call that wall of text?

I haven't been to a bank in years other than to get a mortgage or do some fanancial planning. Why pay for tells who stand around and tell you you should just use the ATM instead if you actually do go to one for a withdrawal?

Banking is not free. That's what the whole complaint was about... Thanks for grasping that. Basic banking, like withdrawing your money or shuffling it from one basic account to another should be. Charge fees for advanced stuff like managing investment portfolios, mortgages, loans, what have you. Not because I want to take $50 of my own money out.

I have no problem paying my bank interest for loans, mortgages and what have you. I do have a problem that it costs me money to make a friggin' purchase at 7-11. I'm basically paying money for the ability to pay money... That's awesome.

I'd complain if the car wash upped it's prices and was using water from my house to clean my own car. That's about the only way you can even compare that to what I'm talking about here.

Yeah, withdraw my money and keep it under a mattress. Awesome idea. Have you ever thought about trying to live life without dealing with a bank? Good luck. No mortgage, no student loans, none of that lovely crap you just rambled on about... It's pretty much impossible, which is why they can gouge you for ridiculous crap like making a simple withdrawal of money that you worked to earn.

MINE is a very common and mistaken viewpoint? Then you go on to say that banks are doing ME a favor? That friggin' ######ed. I'm doing the bank a favor by letting them have my money, invest it and profit off of it. No wonder you're so content to bend over and take whatever anybody gives you if you're thinking they're doing you the favor.

I have no choice but to use a bank. Nobody does. Rare is a job that pays by cheque and not direct deposit. As we both already said, good luck buying a house without a mortgage, going to school without a student loan, etc., etc.. It's exactly that reason that people get jacked with all sorts of fees and charges, because there's nothing you can do about it except pull your money out of that bank and find one who isn't going to screw you. Which is evidence that banks aren't doing US favors by "managing our money for us," it's that we're doing THEM a favor by ALLOWING them to handle our money.

If they were doing us the favor, you'd think there's be fees to deposit my money, not fees to take it out and ease their heavy burdon of making a profit off me.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by flip

For the record banks make A LOT of $$, usually. The CIBC just wrote off like $2billion dollars because of the US market and dollar. Most of that profit that you see on the news isn't because of your $20-30 a month banking fees. In fact lots of people don't even pay bank fees because they keep a certain $$ limit, usually quite high, or just take out cash bundles at a time to avoid service charges.

They make their money based on the deposits that people have placed in that bank. Not only do they make interest on this (and pay back essentially pennies on the dollar) but they charge fees on top of it and try to convince us that these are two totally different functions of the bank. I'm not buying it. Without having the deposits, they can't loan the money out to someone else. They can't invest it in anything else. They can't do anything... and yet they try to convince us they aren't linked. Bull crap.

They should do what every other company out there does - use your profits to finance improvements that will save money in the future... don't nickel and dime your customers who are paying your wage.

ATB raised their fees and they lost my whole family. Not only did they raise the fee, but raised the amount I had to keep in the account (interest free) to waive the fee. It was an inconvenience, but I'm no longer one of their loyal customers. Their loss.

[flip]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

Wow, if my reasong is crap, what the hell would you call that wall of text?

I haven't been to a bank in years other than to get a mortgage or do some fanancial planning. Why pay for tells who stand around and tell you you should just use the ATM instead if you actually do go to one for a withdrawal?

Banking is not free. That's what the whole complaint was about... Thanks for grasping that. Basic banking, like withdrawing your money or shuffling it from one basic account to another should be. Charge fees for advanced stuff like managing investment portfolios, mortgages, loans, what have you. Not because I want to take $50 of my own money out.

I have no problem paying my bank interest for loans, mortgages and what have you. I do have a problem that it costs me money to make a friggin' purchase at 7-11. I'm basically paying money for the ability to pay money... That's awesome.

I'd complain if the car wash upped it's prices and was using water from my house to clean my own car. That's about the only way you can even compare that to what I'm talking about here.

Yeah, withdraw my money and keep it under a mattress. Awesome idea. Have you ever thought about trying to live life without dealing with a bank? Good luck. No mortgage, no student loans, none of that lovely crap you just rambled on about... It's pretty much impossible, which is why they can gouge you for ridiculous crap like making a simple withdrawal of money that you worked to earn.

MINE is a very common and mistaken viewpoint? Then you go on to say that banks are doing ME a favor? That friggin' ######ed. I'm doing the bank a favor by letting them have my money, invest it and profit off of it. No wonder you're so content to bend over and take whatever anybody gives you if you're thinking they're doing you the favor.

I have no choice but to use a bank. Nobody does. Rare is a job that pays by cheque and not direct deposit. As we both already said, good luck buying a house without a mortgage, going to school without a student loan, etc., etc.. It's exactly that reason that people get jacked with all sorts of fees and charges, because there's nothing you can do about it except pull your money out of that bank and find one who isn't going to screw you. Which is evidence that banks aren't doing US favors by "managing our money for us," it's that we're doing THEM a favor by ALLOWING them to handle our money.

If they were doing us the favor, you'd think there's be fees to deposit my money, not fees to take it out and ease their heavy burdon of making a profit off me.

You = communist if you believe that. Nothing is free. Even the mail i mentioned in my last post is paid by your taxes. You even pay fricken health care premiums and you want banking for you free. What effing world do you live in that you should demand free services...oh but only for the ones you don't want to have to pay for.

How can you still not understand that IT IS A BUSINESS. like all the examples i mentioned we could start threads on them all complaining that they should be free because we don't feel like paying for that service.

[PowerPlayoffs06]

Originally Posted by flip

You = communist if you believe that. Nothing is free. Even the mail i mentioned in my last post is paid by your taxes. You even pay fricken health care premiums and you want banking for you free. What effing world do you live in that you should demand free services...oh but only for the ones you don't want to have to pay for.

How can you still not understand that IT IS A BUSINESS. like all the examples i mentioned we could start threads on them all complaining that they should be free because we don't feel like paying for that service.

is the only worthwhile reply.

[Philly06Cup]

Anyone use INGDirect? I've heard plenty of good things about them, so much so that it sounds suspicious. They have no fees, no minimum balances, and they pay half of your fees if you use another banks' ATM machine -- or so I've heard.

[Phaneuf3]

wow. this thread is great.

those new fangled computers are doing all the work these days. everything should be free. its the magic of those intertubes. banks don't have costs and shouldn't be interested in profits because i said so. 50 cents every couple weeks is killing me. back in my day 50 cents would get you 2 admissions to a movie, a large popcorn, a medium soda and a pack of jelly beans! get off my lawn you damn kids!

/thread

[Flames2007FIRE IT UP]

Also use PC financial and it is awesome. I highly recommend them to anyone who can use a computer and does banking online.

[PowerPlayoffs06]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf3

wow. this thread is great.

those new fangled computers are doing all the work these days. everything should be free. its the magic of those intertubes. banks don't have costs and shouldn't be interested in profits because i said so. 50 cents every couple weeks is killing me. back in my day 50 cents would get you 2 admissions to a movie, a large popcorn, a medium soda and a pack of jelly beans! get off my lawn you damn kids!

/thread

businesses should really smarten up and start nickel and dimeing their customers more often. they should hire doormen to hold the door for you and charge you 50 cents for the service. it's only 50 cents. the best thing about it is they'd get you again on the way out! but it's only another 50 cents, big deal. maybe enmax should get with the program and charge folks a fee every time they flip a light switch. that would make shareholders happy. they're obviously not doing enough to try and make a profit if everything you do doesn't have some sort of service charge attached!

When is CalgaryPuck gonna start charging a membership fee to post? Seems they could make a friggin' bundle off of a bunch of the folks here who are more than willing to pony up to anybody with their hand out. It's just good business sense to charge for the service they're offering.

But since there's no fee, they must be Communists...

[old-fart]

Add other one to the PC Financial crowd. We switched from the TD years ago, and have never regretted the decision. They provide free checking, withdrawls from any CIBC, free, web or phone banking, fee replacement card, etc. Plus every time I have had to phone them they have actually been polite and courteous. I have a couple savings accounts with them as well, one that rivals the INGDirect's saving account in interest (4.somthing I believe). Also have a PLC that I've used on occasion that is very simple and competative.

Last year the mortgage was up for renewal and PC Financial won that business too by beating anyone else on terms and rates.

The only negative is that I can't walk in and get a money order or certified cheque same day, but with a tiny bit of planning, that isn't an issue as you can pick it up next day (or thereabouts) at any CIBC of your choosing.

Complaining about bank fees makes me laugh. There are choices, you just have to investigate them.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by PowerPlayoffs06

When is CalgaryPuck gonna start charging a membership fee to post? Seems they could make a friggin' bundle off of a bunch of the folks here who are more than willing to pony up to anybody with their hand out. It's just good business sense to charge for the service they're offering.

Boy are you ever thick.

Different banks operate in different ways. Some offer different services and attach different fees to them. You can choose among many different banks that operate in many different ways... or even choose to use no bank at all. Same goes for a store, a bank or in your example an internet message board. Don't like it? Don't use that bank.

Example: grocery stores. Superstore charges you explicitly for shopping bags based on how many you use. Other stores choose not to and cover their similar costs by slightly raising the price of food. Is this unfair? Does this make you want to stop using grocery stores' services because of their unfair bag fees? After all, they should be lucky to have your business and you bought the food, not the bags, right?