34 Stingrays Dead at Calgary Zoo

[Azure]

Speaking of 'zoos' I watched a video the other night about a guy who took 3 wolves who were abandoned as pups by their mother, raised and taught them everything he possibly could, and because of the knowledge he gained from doing that, he was able to help farmers in Poland keep wolves away from their livestock without having to shoot them.

So don't give me the crap that having animals in cages is 'bad.'

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Azure

So don't give me the crap that having animals in cages is 'bad.'

No one ever said that but thanks for putting words in my mouth. Although it is definitely not ideal, some zoos and sanctuaries do very good work.

Also Jiri, what could possibly be another spin on it? Do you not believe they cut the barbs off the animals to avoid them from harming people? If that did in fact take place it's a ridiculous practice to mutilate an animal for peoples enjoyment.

And whoever said that cat's get declawed all the time. Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner. It's a cruel practice and shouldn't be done.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Sowa

No one ever said that but thanks for putting words in my mouth. Although it is definitely not ideal, some zoos and sanctuaries do very good work.

Also Jiri, what could possibly be another spin on it? Do you not believe they cut the barbs off the animals to avoid them from harming people? If that did in fact take place it's a ridiculous practice to mutilate an animal for peoples enjoyment.

And whoever said that cat's get declawed all the time. Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner. It's a cruel practice and shouldn't be done.

You have a lot of good points Sowa, as do the people who arguing against you in this thread. For me, I lie somewhere in the middle. Unfortunitly for you, your finding out from this thread (you probably already knew) that there is a stigma attached to people like yourself, and who you associated with in the past, and some of the responses in here a little over the top imo. I also wonder what other reason the barbs would have been removed for, when the Zoo has clearly stated it's for the protection of the customers.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Sowa

And whoever said that cat's get declawed all the time. Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner. It's a cruel practice and shouldn't be done.

For a lot of families that declaw their cats, it's a choice of either declawing them or getting rid of them. Which is the more cruel?

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by flameswin

You have a lot of good points Sowa, as do the people who arguing against you in this thread. For me, I lie somewhere in the middle. Unfortunitly for you, your finding out from this thread (you probably already knew) that there is a stigma attached to people like yourself, and who you associated with in the past, and some of the responses in here a little over the top imo. I also wonder what other reason the barbs would have been removed for, when the Zoo has clearly stated it's for the protection of the customers.

My purpose of jumping in this thread wasn't even for arguing for animal rights, etc... This is not the ideal environment to try and convert people and I would rather not bring up that discussion in this forum unless challenged to do so. The main purpose of me being in this thread was to inform the misinformed about direct action animal rights groups. Someone made a statement that it was probably an animal rights group who killed the stingrays. There isn't a case in the history of direct animal rights action of a person or animal being physically harmed. I challenged the posters who claimed so to produce one documented or undocumented. No one could, except someone saying they heard through friends of such ongoings, which is bs because anyone ever involved in ALF action never speaks about it because they could be prosecuted under anti-terrorist bills passed in 2001 (at least in the US). Also, animal rights direct action groups would publicize any successful action through the ALF press office or local media, otherwise the action's motives wouldn't be known. Then someone started posting about PETA's euthanizing of animals, which is irrelevant because PETA doesn't engage in direct action.

Now finally I wouldn't be surprised if direct action groups begin to actually harm people in the future. There are groups in England who released a statement in July last year that they might begin targetting humans who engage in animal cruelty ie research scientists, circus trainers, etc.. Although such action hasn't taken place yet, almost a year later, it probably will eventually as the movement grows more radical in England. They still will not target animals.

[MelBridgeman]

My cat just caught a rat in the yard overnight and killed it and dragged it's headless frame and left it on the door step. This is something that cat does often, cruel! What should I do? Does PETA offer any courses for my cat to help it stop killing poor little rats! It is senseless she doesnt even eat the thing..maybe it thinks of it as a sport? what shall i do!!!

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by calculoso

For a lot of families that declaw their cats, it's a choice of either declawing them or getting rid of them. Which is the more cruel?

declawing is obviously far worse then euthenasia. If we're going to condem declawing, why not spaying and neutering? That seems more cruel to me.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by calculoso

For a lot of families that declaw their cats, it's a choice of either declawing them or getting rid of them. Which is the more cruel?

Well it's kind of a dilemma I guess. I say kind of because in Britain it's virtually impossible to find a vet that will declaw cats and yet somehow the cat lovers there seem to manage. There are alternatives to declawing first of which is realizing that by adopting a cat you have a responsibility to care for and train the cat to adapt to your environment.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Dan02

declawing is obviously far worse then euthenasia. If we're going to condem declawing, why not spaying and neutering? That seems more cruel to me.

I'm kind of done with you. If you don't understand the pet overpopulation problem than there's no reason even to use basic logic with you.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

My cat just caught a rat in the yard overnight and killed it and dragged it's headless frame and left it on the door step. This is something that cat does often, cruel! What should I do? Does PETA offer any courses for my cat to help it stop killing poor little rats! It is senseless she doesnt even eat the thing..maybe it thinks of it as a sport? what shall i do!!!

Isn't Alberta Rat free?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Isn't Alberta Rat free?

BC isnt

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

BC isnt

Oh, I thought you were straight outta Dova, reffering to Dover in SE Calgary?

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Oh, I thought you were straight outta Dova, reffering to Dover in SE Calgary?

I am outta Dover, and my story didn't take place last night nor did it at my house...but i did have to clean up the offerings at the front door, several times

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by Sowa

Well it's kind of a dilemma I guess.

No dilemma for me. It's either a kitty without claws or no kitty at all. Pretty simple. That said, there are obviously new rules that have to be enforced with the cat now (keep it inside, as it can't defend itself against dogs, etc).

Originally Posted by Sowa

There are alternatives to declawing first of which is realizing that by adopting a cat you have a responsibility to care for and train the cat to adapt to your environment.

Some cats just don't adapt. My aunt's cat for example... would scratch everybody that came close, no matter if you had food or not. It would scratch every piece of furniture it came across, whether it was it's scratching pole, it's bed, their leather couch, chair, carpet, walls, etc. It had problems and wasn't learning. It was either no kitty or kitty without claws - pretty simple choice.

[MelBridgeman]

I have been around cats before and after they have been declawed, seem just normal to me, still the same loving companion and sometimes i think it doesnt even know if it doesnt have claws as it still tries to scratch things.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by calculoso

No dilemma for me. It's either a kitty without claws or no kitty at all. Pretty simple. That said, there are obviously new rules that have to be enforced with the cat now (keep it inside, as it can't defend itself against dogs, etc).



Some cats just don't adapt. My aunt's cat for example... would scratch everybody that came close, no matter if you had food or not. It would scratch every piece of furniture it came across, whether it was it's scratching pole, it's bed, their leather couch, chair, carpet, walls, etc. It had problems and wasn't learning. It was either no kitty or kitty without claws - pretty simple choice.

They also sell nail caps now, although i am not sure of their effectiveness...

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Sowa

No one ever said that but thanks for putting words in my mouth. Although it is definitely not ideal, some zoos and sanctuaries do very good work.

Also Jiri, what could possibly be another spin on it? Do you not believe they cut the barbs off the animals to avoid them from harming people? If that did in fact take place it's a ridiculous practice to mutilate an animal for peoples enjoyment. .

The phrase mutilate itself is a spin. I don't know if it harms them or not. I'd be interested in knowing but would have to hear from a credible source.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Sowa

I'm kind of done with you. If you don't understand the pet overpopulation problem than there's no reason even to use basic logic with you.

lol, where did pet overpopulation come from?

I guess i don't understand the pet overpopulation problems the same way you don't understand the cat scratching everything/person in sight problem.

[Ironhorse]

Originally Posted by calculoso

Or like de-clawing a cat (which happens all of the time by pet lovers)?

Which is now frowned upon, and the vast majority of Vets will not perform this procedure.

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

Which is now frowned upon, and the vast majority of Vets will not perform this procedure.

And is actually illegal in several countries...