Einstein: Jews aren't chosen people, belief in God "childish"

[arloiginla]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/08051..._jews_einstein

Not sure if I'm allowed to post the article in its entirety here.

Interesting to say the least, as these comments by Einstein to be released, are quite contradictory to earlier contentions and statements by the man that are known to us today. "Science without religion is lame" comes to mind.

Thoughts?

[J pold]

E=mc

[Gozer]

He's a logical guy, there's no logical reason to think Jews are God's chosen people.

[Iggy's Forehead]

This really isn't earth shattering. If only more people thought this way.

[AC]

Not really surprising. Religious people like to claim that Einstein was religious by taking quotes out of context, despite the evidence that he was at least agnostic, though most likely an atheist.

I received your letter of June 10th. I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.

- Albert Einstein, letter to Guy H. Raner Jr, July 2, 1945, responding to a rumor that a Jesuit priest had caused Einstein to convert from atheism; quoted by Michael R. Gilmore in Skeptic, Vol. 5, No. 2

[ken0042]

In reading the article, it's good to note the perspective. He was writing to explain why he would not be the right man for the job as president of Isreal; and at the time the 2nd president in the country's young history.

[mykalberta]

Science is about proved facts.

Religion is about faith.

They dont mix well because true science has nothing to do with faith in anything.

[photon]

I don't think it really contradicts Einstein's earlier statements.

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings."
-- Albert Einstein, following his wife's advice in responding to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein of the International Synagogue in New York, who had sent Einstein a cablegram bluntly demanding "Do you believe in God?" Quoted from and citation notes derived from Victor J. Stenger, Has Science Found God? (draft: 2001), chapter

"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death."
-- Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, 9 November 1930

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
-- Albert Einstein, 1954, from Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, Princeton University Press

He sometimes talked poetically about God but it wasn't the God of the Bible or the Jews, it more like Spinoza's God.

"The scientist", he said, "is activated by a wonder and awe before the mysterious comprehensibility of the universe which is yet finally beyond his grasp".

"In its profoundest depths it is inaccessible to man".

That is why Einstein said science without religion is lame, he's not talking about religion such as Judaism or Christianity, but a religion of awe of the universe.

The only people who really seem to care are those who have some desire for Einstein to believe in God to validate their views on God. Which doesn't work, since he was at best a pantheist, and a self proclaimed atheist.

[worth]

There's a big difference between believing in "God" as our Earth religions teach and believing in "God" as a matter of nature in a spiritual way and what that has to do with the universe as a whole.

I have this book sitting at home waiting to be read:

http://www.amazon.com/Einstein-Relig.../dp/069110297X

[evman150]

"I cannot conceive of a god who rewards and punishes his creatures or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I--nor would I want to--conceive of an individual that survives his physical death. Let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egotism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature."

One of the most beautiful quotes IMO.

[MarchHare]

Science is about proved facts.

No it isn't.

Science is about developing theories and models to explain natural phenomena. Those theories are then tested under controlled circumstances to determine if the observered results support the hypothesis. Unlike mathematics, where proofs are possible (such as Fermat's Last Theorem or proving that the square root of two is an irrational number), it is never possible to prove anything in science. The contrary is not true; however, and this is an important part of the scientific method. It is possible to disprove ("falsify") a theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Edit: And to tie this post back to the OP, here's a quatation from Einstein himself:

No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong.

[photon]

Good post MarchHare!

[onetwo_threefour]

As others have already said it isn't surprising that Einstein said that. What I find more interesting is the number of commenters on the article who seem to think that Einstein shouldn't be commenting on metaphysical questions. Yet I don't complain when an athelete thanks god or religious scientists express a belief in god, so why shouldn't einstein hold such views publically?

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Science is about proved facts.

Religion is about faith.

They dont mix well because true science has nothing to do with faith in anything.

Religion is also an excuse.

[photon]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

As others have already said it isn't surprising that Einstein said that. What I find more interesting is the number of commenters on the article who seem to think that Einstein shouldn't be commenting on metaphysical questions. Yet I don't complain when an athelete thanks god or religious scientists express a belief in god, so why shouldn't einstein hold such views publically?

I didn't read the comments, but are they commenting that Einstein shouldn't comment on metaphysical questions, or that people shouldn't put any weight behind Einstein's comments on metaphysical questions?

If the former I agree, if it's the latter, I would agree with the commenter... Appeal to authority is a common fallacy and I have often seen Einstein (or Newton or any other scientist that held anything remotely resembling a religious belief) invoked by Christians to somehow support their religious position.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by onetwo_threefour

As others have already said it isn't surprising that Einstein said that. What I find more interesting is the number of commenters on the article who seem to think that Einstein shouldn't be commenting on metaphysical questions. Yet I don't complain when an athelete thanks god or religious scientists express a belief in god, so why shouldn't einstein hold such views publically?

Another interesting theme in some comments I've seen is "Yeah, well, he didn't really believe that. He had some doubt that day and we see it in this letter. It doesn't mean anything".

People will grasp at any straw.

[llama64]

Originally Posted by photon

I didn't read the comments, but are they commenting that Einstein shouldn't comment on metaphysical questions, or that people shouldn't put any weight behind Einstein's comments on metaphysical questions?

If the former I agree, if it's the latter, I would agree with the commenter... Appeal to authority is a common fallacy and I have often seen Einstein (or Newton or any other scientist that held anything remotely resembling a religious belief) invoked by Christians to somehow support their religious position.

Newton is a funny case. He was seeking Occult knowledge up till his death.

Meh, it doesn't matter what Einstien believed. People are still going to go off on their own zealous campaign no matter if they are aethiest or religious.

[4X4]

Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.

This is part of the reason I disagree with religion. Good quote, Einstein.