Any lawyers on CP? can you tell me about the job market in Calgary?

[troutman]

My two cents:

Many students seem infatuated with working at the big firm, and slaving away for 10 years to become a partner.

I articled at a big firm in Vancouver, and it was such a poisonous place. My next job was in Penticton, and my three years there was a great experience. I got to do things I never imagined doing at a big firm, where you tend to get pigeon-holed in one department. Seems to me that too many students already think they know what kind of law they want to practice, without really exploring all the different areas.

Working in a small town/small office can be a very fulfilling way to practice law.

Why work 70 hours per week? You can do quite well in the small firm, and still have a life. Be your own boss.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by troutman

Why work 70 hours per week? You can do quite well in the small firm, and still have a life. Be your own boss.

That's my dream. Don't tell my current employer, okay?

[Kjesse]

I currently assist with hiring at one of the "match" firms in Calgary, and was in charge of hiring for a couple years.

The job market is very strong for students coming out. Some of the bigger match firms (mine being one of the "smaller" ones) are complaining that too many of the quality applicants are taking jobs in Toronto or Vancouver when we really need that talent here in these booming times.

Starting salary here is $65K, I think one or two of the bigger firms are paying $70K, but I'm not sure on that.

Many firms that hire multiple students in the match program lose a student or two even before articles start due to unforseen circumstances (marriage, family developments, etc.), so I'd say, if you want a job at a big national firm, you probably have a good shot at it.

But I agree with the above comments about being careful what you wish for. Those biglaw jobs aren't always all they're cracked up to be (some of the firms are truly rough on their students). Personally, I love where I'm at and our students seem to as well.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by troutman

My two cents:

Many students seem infatuated with working at the big firm, and slaving away for 10 years to become a partner.

I articled at a big firm in Vancouver, and it was such a poisonous place. My next job was in Penticton, and my three years there was a great experience. I got to do things I never imagined doing at a big firm, where you tend to get pigeon-holed in one department. Seems to me that too many students already think they know what kind of law they want to practice, without really exploring all the different areas.

Working in a small town/small office can be a very fulfilling way to practice law.

Why work 70 hours per week? You can do quite well in the small firm, and still have a life. Be your own boss.

It's funny that you say that. I always find the hardest part of an interview is when they ask me what kind of law im interested in. How am I supposed to know if I've never worked in that field?

I can always tell them which courses I enjoyed, but there is probably a big difference in between a course and real practice.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by troutman

My two cents:

Many students seem infatuated with working at the big firm, and slaving away for 10 years to become a partner.

I articled at a big firm in Vancouver, and it was such a poisonous place. My next job was in Penticton, and my three years there was a great experience.

Hmm... I might hit you up for some info on your P-town experiences. I'm looking at relocating there long term a couple of years from now, and would love to hear what it's like to practice there.

I, for one, can strongly recommend government bodies when it comes to articling. They can't afford to have you just messing around prepping lists of documents and crap a half ######ed porcupine could do. Tons of responsibility, and varied experience very early on. I ran multiple trials and hearings during the course of my articles, and have talked to several big firm friends who, even after becoming lawyers, still do little more than research and document drafting. They spend 60 hours a week doing it, and they get paid better than I do, but it's pretty soul destroying stuff - especially since it likely took 7 years of post secondary to get there.

[tvp2003]

Under my duty to my current employer, I am bound not to bash "Big Law". Suffice it to say, it's not all it's cracked up to be... there are obviously advantages and disadvantages involved

Originally Posted by blankall

It's funny that you say that. I always find the hardest part of an interview is when they ask me what kind of law im interested in. How am I supposed to know if I've never worked in that field?

I can always tell them which courses I enjoyed, but there is probably a big difference in between a course and real practice.

My recommendation is to talk to lawyers working in areas that you might be interested in. Learn about what they do and why they enjoy it, and see if you are the same. That way, even though you may not have any first hand experience, you've educated yourself about that practice area and can give the interviewer an intelligent (and truthful) answer. It's funny to hear students (myself included) say that they are interested in "corporate law" when they really have no idea what that actually is...

[lucid]

CP... infinite source of knowledge, yet again.

Can anyone shed some light or their personal experience with respect to "required courses" students should be taking?
I'm outside the CPLED zone so I haven't heard much about it at all.
Right now, I'm thinking of splitting my course load between the practical, traditional courses, and courses that interest me more.

Also, did anyone do split articles between two provinces?

[killer_carlson]

well the one course I wish I did take that i did not was Personal Property Security Act. That one comes up for litigators or solicitors alike.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by IntenseFan

Don't worry too much about it Killer, if anyone looks at my user info they will see my occupation and I will be "outed" as you state.

With respect to some of the above posts, I am going to have to agree that articling was pretty much the worst job I ever had - including those that required me to wear a colourful uniform and a hat.

that must have been your Calaway Park days, eh?

There is at least one more of our classmates on here as well.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by fatso

I hope this isn't too far from the OP's thread intent, but there's some great insight here and I'd be curious to hear about the market for lawyers recently called in other provinces? What about people who have articled in another province, got called, and want to get to Calgary ASAP? What's the market like for those junior, beginning lawyers?

at our firm in Edmonton (one of edmonton's big ones) one of the questions that will be asked will be about what sort of ties do you have to the city. Remember that this is a business and no business wants to invest heavily in an asset that will not pay off for a couple of years if there is a risk that as soon as you are able to start paying off, that you head back out of province.

[Titan]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

at our firm in Edmonton (one of edmonton's big ones) one of the questions that will be asked will be about what sort of ties do you have to the city. Remember that this is a business and no business wants to invest heavily in an asset that will not pay off for a couple of years if there is a risk that as soon as you are able to start paying off, that you head back out of province.

Because Edmontonians are a little sensitive about bringing in talent and then within a year their wife wants them to leave the local sports reporter talent alone and leave town. It is a bit of a sore point.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

at our firm in Edmonton (one of edmonton's big ones) one of the questions that will be asked will be about what sort of ties do you have to the city. Remember that this is a business and no business wants to invest heavily in an asset that will not pay off for a couple of years if there is a risk that as soon as you are able to start paying off, that you head back out of province.

Hey thanks for the advice killer_carlson. I appreciate it. I actually grew up in Calgary so that should be a pretty easy sell. I left for school.

I wonder if you could please say a bit more about the market for recent calls. Is it pretty good? My understanding was that it could be tough to secure articles in Alberta, but that there was a decent demand for recent calls. Am I on the right track there?

Cheers!

[fredr123]

Classes I didn't take but wish I did:

Family Law - I had no desire to learn anything about divorces and division of matrimonial property. I didn't want to practice in that area at all. Like many of my regrets, not taking Family Law was a mistake because these kinds of issues crop up all the time in other matters AND family law questions will no doubt come from friends and family. In a small practice, you probably can't get away from doing at least a little bit of family law.

Tax Law - It wasn't required at UofC but it probably should be. I took the remedial level tax class reluctantly in third year and I am glad I have at least that background. Should have took higher tax classes.

Anything to do with the PPSA or the Civil Enforcement Act - Issues related to these Acts come up all the time, especially in litigation. It's one thing to win a judgment, but it's another thing altogether to collect that judgment.

Wills and Estates - Again, I took the basic level course but wish I would have pursued it further. Wills and Estates is an area small practitioners will deal with a lot. Your family and friends will also ask questions. It's probably a good idea to make sure you know a bit about it.

Criminal Law - Okay, this shouldn't be on the list because I actually did take a lot of criminal classes. Outside of the first year basic crim class, I would recommend any law student to take the criminal process class. Best to have at least a rudimentary understanding of how things work, in case your buddy calls you up at 2:00 am after a night out at Pete's Pub and yours is the only lawyer number he knows...

[troutman]

I always thought there should be a course called Supermodel Law.

Also, Pet Law.

[fredr123]

There should be a class on running a practice. The business side of the practice of law is something I've really struggled to figure out. Most of the overhead and all that kind of stuff is taken care of by my firm but I have an amazing amount of control over how I run things. From billing practices, what kind of files and clients to take, etc., it's been a bit overwhelming. If I were to ever try and work on my own, I would be so out to lunch...

[troutman]

Originally Posted by fredr123

There should be a class on running a practice. The business side of the practice of law is something I've really struggled to figure out. Most of the overhead and all that kind of stuff is taken care of by my firm but I have an amazing amount of control over how I run things. From billing practices, what kind of files and clients to take, etc., it's been a bit overwhelming. If I were to ever try and work on my own, I would be so out to lunch...

There certainly should be courses on marketing.